The U.S. imprisons more people than any other state on earth. If you think the local "Sheriff" - by virtue of his personal experience - is logically the best person to address this subject, you reveal yourself as an unthinking imbecile. As if the head salesmen of your local Hummer dealership is best qualified to speak critically about car culture in the states. Alongside "college towns" there are "prison towns" in the U.S. whose economic well-being are bound to prisons. PBS aired a good documentary on this not long ago. Redline's self-evident bullshit about the death penalty in China explaining lower incarceration rates is laughable.

Google "prison industrial complex" and poke around... R.F.F. is 100% correct about sentencing, death penalties, and deterrence, too.

Angela Davis is the best-known scholar and activist on the subject.

Yeah, cops are dumb, thanks for the hate. Good luck saving the world.

I'm sure we'd get along over a beer talking music.



Edited for spelling. I have to wake up at 4:45, ugh.

Andrew. wrote:The U.S. imprisons more people than any other state on earth. If you think the local "Sheriff" - by virtue of his personal experience - is logically the best person to address this subject, you reveal yourself as an unthinking imbecile.

Is conversing with Redline some sort of ignorant act because he's a sheriff? As it happens on a daily basis, whether you'd like to consider his actions or not, this is the sort of mentality that keeps this way of operating going. "Drugs are bad, and people need to be punished."

Why isn't Redline's view a serious one to discuss, besides the fact he's part of law enforcement? This forum is a place to share ideas.

If you can't see how valuable his stance is in this discussion, you need to rethink your own ideas. How can a person change the political atmosphere if the general public feels the exact same way?

Redline wrote:Yeah, cops are dumb, thanks for the hate. Good luck saving the world.

I'm sure we'd get allong over a beer talking music.

I didn't say cops are dumb. Nor did I say anything hateful. And I'd like to think we would get along over a beer, talking music. I was referring to Bad Comrade's comment that somehow you trump statistics because you're invested in perpetuating the system to which they refer. Conversely, I wasn't suggesting someone in your position doesn't or wouldn't have important insights - just that you don't necessarily offer more valuable insight than, say, a military officer does on whether an illegal war and occupation is for the best. Just as a building contractor denying any housing crisis may - or may not - trump a bunch of rigorously researched articles on subprime mortages, etc.

Incarceration is a massive issue in the U.S. - and a symptom of broader systemic forces. You claim it isn't. And your arguments aren't borne out by factual and sociological research. Hence, I don't think you're a credible authority. This isn't to say you're dumb or worthy of hatred.

I wish you no ill will. I just think incarceration rates in the U.S. ought not to be defended and dismissed, regardless of whether a sidearm is one of the tools on your belt and a star is pinned to your chest.

Redline wrote:Pour money on the problem like we've been doing for 40 years, legalize it, I don't care. Tax the hell out of it, it still won't pay for the horrendous medical costs down the road.

Exactly. The medical quagmire deterrent would be much more effective and humane than the incarceration deterrent. The well-connected inmates get all the drugs they want anyways.

floog said-:It's the Australians who are inherently criminal.
hey Floog, (or flog) fuck you, you dickhead. you just lost a possible australian buddy.

legalize it

(marijuana)

as for hard drugs, addiction and what not... there were some comments from redline, mostly along these lines:

Redline wrote:
Ok, we'll see how it goes when they let all the crack heads out.

i have nothing but contempt for your addict-phobia. tis the mark of a naive yet pompous mind.

you hypothesize the disaster that would so inevitably arise from "letting the addicts free" but you conveniently left out the notion that thousands upon thousands of alcoholics (addicts to a rather "hard" drug) are perfectly free and out of jail. didn't have to be let out; they were never there in the first place. their drug is legal. guess what? as with the consumers of any other hard drugs, there are problems that arise with drinkers; their volatile lifestyles cause lots of problems, it sucks, and the rest of the world moves along somehow. the only difference is that since their drug is legal, once they actually commit a crime (drunk driving, belligerent violence typical of drinkers, property damage due to severely incapacitated motor skills, etc), it's too late. in my mind though, that's fair. their drug (alcohol) should be legal, and if it causes them to commit a crime, then they should pay for that crime. but if you think we should prevent drug-related violent crimes by locking up drug users for drug use by itself (as a "preventative measure" or what not), then you still have a ways to go: you've yet to get to the alcoholics.

which brings me to my next question: do you ever drink? i know that "hypocrite" accusations are ad hominem, but if you drink (or even if you don't, but you are ok with the legality of such a mainstream yet hard drug as alcohol) you should at least consider the things i've said.

1% doesn't seem like enough. There should be more people in jail.

Redline wrote:Pour money on the problem like we've been doing for 40 years, legalize it, I don't care. Tax the hell out of it, it still won't pay for the horrendous medical costs down the road. That's my point.

The horrendous medical costs will be there no matter what, in jail or out of jail, until addicts can get treatment without having their already fucked up lives completely ruined by the legal system.

Once someone is addicted, the damage is done, it's too late. They need medical help, not a prison sentence. If they are so addicted they can't function, let them get the drugs in a safe environment from a doctor, and let them live their lives as normally as they can. You would undermine the criminal underground, and maybe even help someone live a decent life.

Redline wrote:Yeah, cops are dumb, thanks for the hate. Good luck saving the world.

I'm sure we'd get along over a beer talking music.

You realize, as a law enforcement officer, you only see the worst of the worst when it comes to drug addicts, right?