...well, partially, anyway. i'm just curious as to a comment a friend made regarding live sound engineering a while ago. it's been swimming around in my brain ever since and i thought now is the time to finally exorcise it and find an answer!

when talking about the ideal positions for the faders of each channel, he said to set them to 0db with only very minor adjustments. the main "volume" setting should be done through the gain control. he said that having the faders at 0db would ensure that 'the physics works out better.'

so, then, my question: why would 'the physics' work out better because the faders were at 0db? or would they not and my friend is completely wrong?

cheers.

Hmmm. I wouldn't really call it "physics".

Basically, its best to get most of the gain at the input section because the mixer will exhibit less noise by mainly using the first gain stage. By using gain at the fader you add (a little) more noise. By cutting at the fader, you are then using too much gain at the input stage.

So, when you set up you always leave your faders set to 0dB for setting the rough gain. You can then make fine adjustments using the faders.

Its also handy having the faders at the 0dB position because you have the ability to pull the gain up and down at the fader. If the fader were all the way up, there would be no where left to go if you wanted to increase volume.

That is, unless you were a member of Spinal Tap.

ok, cool, that makes sense; cheers!

though it seems an awkward way to refer to something so clearly electrical in nature, it is actually indeed physics. NOT the physics of sound (which is called Acoustics) but rather the physics of electrical signals, and electricity in general, which is a physical science known as Electromagnetism.

and yeah, i always shoot for faders at 0, and from there it's a matter of getting the pad on the mic set right if need be (if there is one) and the pad on the input channel (if need be) and the channel gain.

Jon wrote:when talking about the ideal positions for the faders of each channel, he said to set them to 0db with only very minor adjustments. the main "volume" setting should be done through the gain control. he said that having the faders at 0db would ensure that 'the physics works out better.'
cheers.

Wow, a "sound guy" said that? What the fuck are the faders for then? Jeezus. This guy is a moron. Avoid him mixing your band (or any other) at all costs. Not like you usually get a choice or anything. All that needs to be said here is, gain structure has nothing to do with room acoustics. Mixers do not know the "room". Not yet at least...haha.

Elvischrist wrote:

Jon wrote:when talking about the ideal positions for the faders of each channel, he said to set them to 0db with only very minor adjustments. the main "volume" setting should be done through the gain control. he said that having the faders at 0db would ensure that 'the physics works out better.'
cheers.

Wow, a "sound guy" said that? What the fuck are the faders for then? Jeezus. This guy is a moron. Avoid him mixing your band (or any other) at all costs. Not like you usually get a choice or anything. All that needs to be said here is, gain structure has nothing to do with room acoustics. Mixers do not know the "room". Not yet at least...haha.

Well, he could have said "there's less noise in the gain structure" but would he have understood? It is physics... The original quote says nothing about room acoustics. So I don't think you can say he is a moron or a bad sound guy just from this..

This does not take into account when you want to make medium volume to loud signals less loud.

The gain knob should be used to make sure you have a good level going through the channel strip. True, when tracking to tape through a console, it's common to set the fader to zero and set the gain knob to get good level, so long as your console channel's 0dB and your tape machine's 0dB are calibrated. However, I'm sure a lot of us here try to bypass the mixer channels all together and just go preamp to tape in as short of a signal path as possible.

However, when it comes to mixing, you shouldn't set your faders to zero and then make the first set of major adjustments with the gain knobs. If you want to make a loud signal quiet in the manner above, you'd have excessive headroom in the op amps in the EQ and Fader circuits. You want to get a strong but not clipping level to the channel strip and then turn down the level at the fader.

Same thing with live sound, as live sound is basically a mixing process, not a tracking process.

Cheers!
Ben Adrian

OK, maybe moron was a bit harsh. I think I may have misunderstood. Either way its a dumb comment cause that's not how you set up your gain on a channel. And if he would have said, "I set the gain this way because there is less noise in the gain structure", that would have been wrong too.

Elvischrist wrote:..... All that needs to be said here is, gain structure has nothing to do with room acoustics. Mixers do not know the "room". Not yet at least...haha.

Mixers that "know" the room

Yes now, at the very least....hahaha. (DSP's gonna' getcha)

geiginni wrote:

Elvischrist wrote:..... All that needs to be said here is, gain structure has nothing to do with room acoustics. Mixers do not know the "room". Not yet at least...haha.

Mixers that "know" the room

Yes now, at the very least....hahaha. (DSP's gonna' getcha)

Jeez, I stand corrected....... Stupid Technology.