If my public trial on this forum is a game of 'connect the dots' between my examination of global banking to my 'exposure' as an anti-semite ( by a minority of you, as I am grateful for- I know many others seem to think I have not crossed a line, and now those who understand me are targeted as cowards by the P.C. police ), then I would like to ask if connect the dots cannot be used between the civilian deaths in Gaza and Lebanon and the Zionist supremacist mindset of the Likudian regime and the Halakhah contempt for non-Jews that is instilled into the Israeli military?

Yesha Rabbinical Council wrote:

Yesha Rabbinical Council: During time of war, enemy has no innocents

The Yesha Rabbinical Council announced in response to an IDF attack in Kfar Qanna that "according to Jewish law, during a time of battle and war, there is no such term as 'innocents' of the enemy."

"All of the discussions on Christian morality are weakening the spirit of the army and the nation and are costing us in the blood of our soldiers and civilians," the statement said. (Efrat Weiss)

in case anyone thinks that anti-semite bob is making this shit up, here's your ynet dot com link

Come on, Clocker Bob, I don't think anybody is putting you on trial here.
And I really don't think the old "you criticize Israel, therefore you must be anti-Semitic" saw is at work. In fact, I suspect that many in the EA crowd are sympathetic to your views.

Mazec wrote:Come on, Clocker Bob, I don't think anybody is putting you on trial here.
And I really don't think the old "you criticize Israel, therefore you must be anti-Semitic" saw is at work.

It damn well seems to me like it is.

As soon as someone runs out of justification juice they start pointing the anti-semite finger, it seems to me.

Well, just what is it you're trying to say, Bob, with all this quoting of bits and pieces of the Talmud then? Especially when it's in relation to a thread dedicated to Israel's present actions in Lebannon, not Judaism in toto? What do you think that suggests?

Quoting these things in this context are at least a stretch, and at most a suggestion that all Jews think or believe these things like "there are no innocents" or "the lives of 1000 Arabs aren't worth on Jewish fingernail." That such thoughts are in a Jewish "nature" or are orthodoxy. Bob, you're really good at digging up lots of shit, but a lot of people say a lot of shit, so it's not like you're presenting us anything new. What would does posting this nonsense suggests? It would be the same as if I or anyone tried to paint all Islam and the Arab world as the one of the Imams and Mullahs with the same nihilistic, hard-line interpretation who danced a jig on Sept. 11th or order fatwa after fatwa that all Americans are justifiable targets. On top of that, it doesn't take a genius to mine some gems out of any religious text, e.g. Sura 9:29 that commands that all non-Muslims [Dhimmis] 'feel themselves subdued.' Such a thing can be interpretted to put the screws to a non-Muslim living under Sharia, or it can just be a mere formality. But it could be abused in order to demonize just like you're doing with Jewish interpretations.

To top it off, linking such an interpretation of Judaism to some world-wide global bank conspiracy run by Jews is getting really disgusting and tiresome. Why don't you just put up one of those neat little cartoons of the hook-nosed Shylock slobbering over a pile of dough and world map with a Star of David super-imposed on it? It got results for Goebbells.

There's a crucial difference you gloss over, time and again: Israel's actions in the past few weeks, or even in the last 60 years or even Jewish actions over the last 5000 odd years have not one thing to do with some global conspiracy on their part to take over the planet, or to eradicate Arabs or Muslims from existence. This is a theme you suggest over and again.

Be against a state of Israel. Fine, you'll be just another. Be against their present actions. Fine, we'll have something to talk about. Be against the wisdom of their present actions. Fine, I'll buy you a beer, and we can agree. But when you make sweeping generalizations on a Jewish or Zionist agenda--whatever you poorly and incoherently try to mask it as--and take a few things some hard-liners say or interpret out of scripture, and try to suggest that this is the sum total of what's going on, you are wrong indeed and deserve a good cockpunch.

I'll say it again: It suggests of Jew Hatred.

clocker bob wrote: Halakhah contempt for non-Jews that is instilled into the Israeli military?

I'm pretty sure Clocker Bob has been to see my little rock band play in Chicago. We even shared recording tips with each other. I would listen to his recordings and he would listen to ours. Meanwhile I have taken an active role in the education of people who are in the IDF. I had lunch with Israelis who were part of an IDF tank battalion in the West Bank. Then again I've also taught a Palestinian student who's parents were from the West Bank. Small world!

This is from Wiki:

The Yesha Council is the local government of Israeli settlers in "Yesha," a Hebrew acronym for Judea, Samaria, Gaza, which are otherwise referred to as the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Consider the source of this ruling. I'm not defending it or saying that I agree with it. Only that it's pretty typical of an exterior wing of a religious Council. How is it different than Hezbollah sending rockets into civilian areas? How is it different than Hamas sending people to bomb bus stations? Both sides have people who are callas when it comes to their regard for humanity. The Yesha Council does not speak for the majority of Israelis or for their government just as a particular Islamic Cleric does not speak for all Muslims.

I'm no expert on Halacha, but I'm not sure why you think that Jewish Law demands contempt for non-jews by Israeli soldiers. Again, I'll just go back to my personal experiences. I have talked with people who care a great deal about the Palestinians. One in particular risked his life to save a child caught in the crossfire in the West Bank. I guess one could make the argument that if they weren't in the west bank in the first place... but I digress. On the other hand I've talked with people who seemed to dehumanize the Palestinian people. I found it pretty scary.

So I guess that I just wanted to point out that not all Zionists are warmongers.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:Well, just what is it you're trying to say, Bob, with all this quoting of bits and pieces of the Talmud then?

Very simple. Zionists and jews who are in lockstep with zionists do not deserve the status they they thrive on: "we are perpetual victims of groundless hate". They refuse to concede that their shit can stink to high heaven the same as the rest of us. Their arrogance-fueled myopia about their own track record is an affront to me. Every action of theirs is explained as, "a Jew decided to do it, so that is all the justification we are obliged to present". That smacks of master race bullshit on their part. Any questions about banking, AIPAC, spying on allies, collective punishment of their enemies, and it becomes circle the wagons time and smear the opposition as anti-semites.

If they can't accept that some of the hate directed towards Jews is in response to hate projected by them, then they expose their massive sanctimonious egos for me and everyone else who cares to see them.

lemuel gulliver wrote:Quoting these things in this context are at least a stretch, and at most a suggestion that all Jews think or believe these things like "there are no innocents" or "the lives of 1000 Arabs aren't worth on Jewish fingernail." That such thoughts are in a Jewish "nature" or are orthodoxy.

You tell me what influence the Talmud or the Halakhah have over the zionists or Likud. They seem to act in ways that suggest that they see these texts as God-given free passes for atrocities. If you can't see that connecting the Talmud to the Likud is as valid a connection as connecting Wahabi to the jihadists, then you're in denial, and don't tell me that you have a history on this forum of making careful distinctions between the zawahirians and mainstream Islam- you don't.

You want the jewish hate speech to remain obscure, a distant irrelevancy, because to do otherwise forces you to wipe some of that holier-than-thou smirk off their faces.

lemuel gulliver wrote:There's a crucial difference you gloss over, time and again: Israel's actions in the past few weeks, or even in the last 60 years or even Jewish actions over the last 5000 odd years have not one thing to do with some global conspiracy on their part to take over the planet, or to eradicate Arabs or Muslims from existence. This is a theme you suggest over and again.

Are you serious? The effort by the zionists to restore Israel to the biblical borders is just as much behind all of this conflict as oil and defense spending are behind it. Your 'chapterized' version of history is illogical.

lemuel gulliver wrote: But when you make sweeping generalizations on a Jewish or Zionist agenda--whatever you poorly and incoherently try to mask it as--and take a few things some hard-liners say or interpret out of scripture, and try to suggest that this is the sum total of what's going on, you are wrong indeed and deserve a good cockpunch.

Cool, a threat. Bring it- Chicago, 60622. e-mail me.

Mazec wrote:Come on, Clocker Bob, I don't think anybody is putting you on trial here.
And I really don't think the old "you criticize Israel, therefore you must be anti-Semitic" saw is at work. In fact, I suspect that many in the EA crowd are sympathetic to your views.

Mazec, did you miss my qualifying statement?:

clocker bob wrote:my 'exposure' as an anti-semite ( by a minority of you, as I am grateful for- I know many others seem to think I have not crossed a line).

I'm only referring to four people. Read more closely next time, please.

The war nuts will promote whatever disinformation they are fed...

News agencies stand by Lebanon photos

By DAVID BAUDER, Associated Press Writer Tue Aug 1, 4:26 PM ET

NEW YORK - Three news agencies on Tuesday rejected challenges to the veracity of photographs of bodies taken in the aftermath of an Israeli airstrike in Lebanon, strongly denying that the images were staged.

Photographers from The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse all covered rescue operations Sunday in Qana, where 56 Lebanese were killed. Many of their photos depicted rescue workers carrying dead children.

A British Web site, the EU Referendum blog, built an argument that chicanery may have been involved by citing time stamps that went with captions of the photographs.

For example, the Web site draws attention to a photo by AP's Lefteris Pitarakis time stamped 7:21 a.m., showing a dead girl in an ambulance. Another picture, stamped 10:25 a.m. and taken by AP's Mohammed Zaatari, shows the same girl being loaded onto the ambulance. In a third, by AP photographer Nasser Nasser and stamped 10:44 a.m., a rescue worker carries the girl with no ambulance nearby.

The site suggests these events were staged for effect, a criticism echoed by talk show host Rush Limbaugh when he directed listeners to the blog on Monday.

"These photographers are obviously willing to participate in propaganda," Limbaugh said. "They know exactly what's being done, all these photos, bringing the bodies out of the rubble, posing them for the cameras, it's all staged. Every bit of it is staged and the still photographers know it."

For his idiotic audience, they are hearing exactly want they want to hear: that the casualties themselves were staged. - CB

The AP said information from its photo editors showed the events were not staged, and that the time stamps could be misleading for several reasons, including that web sites can use such stamps to show when pictures are posted, not taken. An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it. Reuters, in a statement, said it categorically rejects any such suggestion.

"It's hard to imagine how someone sitting in an air-conditioned office or broadcast studio many thousands of miles from the scene can decide what occurred on the ground with any degree of accuracy," said Kathleen Carroll, AP's senior vice president and executive editor.

Bob, what does your last post have to do with the topic of this thread?

clocker bob wrote:Very simple. Zionists and jews who are in lockstep with zionists do not deserve the status they they thrive on: "we are perpetual victims of groundless hate". They refuse to concede that their shit can stink to high heaven the same as the rest of us. Their arrogance-fueled myopia about their own track record is an affront to me. Every action of theirs is explained as, "a Jew decided to do it, so that is all the justification we are obliged to present". That smacks of master race bullshit on their part. Any questions about banking, AIPAC, spying on allies, collective punishment of their enemies, and it becomes circle the wagons time and smear the opposition as anti-semites.

If they can't accept that some of the hate directed towards Jews is in response to hate projected by them, then they expose their massive sanctimonious egos for me and everyone else who cares to see them.

This the same hate that has been directed toward Jews dating at least back to Marlow's Barabas and Shakespeare's Shylock. You're playing off the same old song. Jewish bankers, blah, blah, blah. If the Zionists are in such control of world banking and defense spending, how come some goy like me has such shitty credit? I mean, c'mon, they could give me a break for, like, 80 points for my support.

clocker bob wrote:Are you serious? The effort by the zionists to restore Israel to the biblical borders is just as much behind all of this conflict as oil and defense spending are behind it. Your 'chapterized' version of history is illogical.

Please explain what you mean by "chapterized."

What effort? How many square miles is the Sinai they gave back? How much oil is in Lebannon?

lemuel gulliver wrote: But when you make sweeping generalizations on a Jewish or Zionist agenda--whatever you poorly and incoherently try to mask it as--and take a few things some hard-liners say or interpret out of scripture, and try to suggest that this is the sum total of what's going on, you are wrong indeed and deserve a good cockpunch.

lemuel gulliver wrote:Cool, a threat. Bring it- Chicago, 60622. e-mail me.

Whatever, bob.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:Bob, what does your last post have to do with the topic of this thread?

It has to do with me finding a semi-logical place for the article other than the main Israel thread, which I'm boycotting until the plants depart.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:This the same hate that has been directed toward Jews dating at least back to Marlow's Barabas and Shakespeare's Shylock. You're playing off the same old song.

You're trapped inside your knee-jerk reaction. Criticism of a segment of Jews does not constitute hate toward all Jews. You're a pro-Jewish bigot so your critical thinking short-circuits.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:Jewish bankers, blah, blah, blah. If the Zionists are in such control of world banking and defense spending, how come some goy like me has such shitty credit? I mean, c'mon, they could give me a break for, like, 80 points for my support.

Lamest response ever. Embarassing. You think that plutocrats gain control over world banking and defense spending to share the wealth?

clocker bob wrote:Are you serious? The effort by the zionists to restore Israel to the biblical borders is just as much behind all of this conflict as oil and defense spending are behind it. Your 'chapterized' version of history is illogical.

Lemuel Gulliver wrote:Please explain what you mean by "chapterized."

Maybe chapterized is not the best adjective; people who love the Israeli invasion are talking like history began with the capture of the two IDF soldiers inside Lebanon- the story begins much earlier than that.

I think you want to see the current Israeli conflict as a response to outsider threats, when it is motivated by Israeli determination to expand its borders to biblical dimensions. Israel wants to be seen as reactive when it is in fact active, and has been waiting for Zionists in America to lock in cooperation from a US government that will support its expansionist dreams. Now it has the ally it needs. It is the mirror image of the PNAC War On Terror, this time delivered by Likud- amplify the threat, terrorize and occupy based on exaggerations and fabrications. You're a sucker for war propaganda, so you can't see that Israeli is the aggressor.

lemuel gulliver wrote: you are wrong indeed and deserve a good cockpunch.

clocker bob wrote:Cool, a threat. Bring it- Chicago, 60622. e-mail me.

lemuel gulliver wrote:Whatever, bob.

You want to march around this forum like you're Meir Kahane telling what I 'deserve', I'll tell you where you can find me.