madlee wrote:

WoundedFoot wrote:If someone can fill me in though, what is the "deal" with 180 gram? What effect does the weight have on sound quality and playability, if any?

the discs are thicker, which helps resist warping.

there are probably other aspects,

The other major aspect of high gram vinyl, albeit the major reason, is the ability to cut deeper physical grooves into the record, vastly improving the ability for the needle to transduce a more accurate waveform...and therefore, higher fidelity.

The most obvious aspect of this would be low-end signal information. With high weight LPs (if mastered properly, you know), you can easily discern a major difference.

A good example, if you have it laying around is Low's "things we lost in the fire" LP which came out on 180g.

An advantage of buying vinyl one might consider is that after acquiring a sizeable amount of phonographs, one can upgrade the playback fidelity simply by puchasing a better turntable, stylus, tonearm, and/or phono preamplifier. Original issue CDs are already obsolete and thusly, digital remastering and reissues are flooding the market. This repurchasing of media is a disadvantage for technophiles, whereas original vinyl pressings, when in excellent condition, can yield a comparably adequate fidelity extending back forty years (yes, depending on the pressing). Go back fifty years, and music was engineered and mixed entirely on the analog/tube realm, so the permutations of the term "fidelity" take on whole new meanings.

I take issue with regard to the LP disadvantage of 20+ minutes a side. If an album's playing for the next forty-five minutes, you have time to multi-task. You can check your email, post on an internet forum, cook a meal, trim your pubic hair, floss your teeth, masturbate, rearrange the livingroom furniture, etc: the result is that you're not focusing on the music. So when someone bitches about flipping over a record, I'm inclined to bring up how much effort is associated with bringing it to one's home stereo just so one can criticize it while flossing.

JDanger wrote:

madlee wrote:Despite having a pretty good record collection, I recommend not buying LPs.

why?

unless you are a rich person with lots of free time on your hands, LPs are just not very user friendly.

1. equipment playback costs are high. to compete with digital, you will need a decent turntable, which will at least cost $300. next you need a decent cartridge. add $100 for that. you will also need a decent phono preamp, which to my ears, is just as important as the previous two. add $150 at least for that.

This entire post was excellent. But it's this first bulletpoint that I find particularly noteworthy.

There is an Army of young indie rockers out there that blindly echo the "Vinyl is superior to Digital" argument as some sort of religious dogma. Yet in my experience this assertion has absolutely no validity until you've built up a decent system, which takes time and loads of money.

As I've gotten older and made more money, I've come to appreciate vinyl more. At this point I primarily buy records. But when I was younger I never believed the Vinyl argument. Friends would show me their Fisher-price turntables and say, "Isn't that Hiss-Crackle-Pop so cool?"
No. Actually it isn't that cool. It actually sounds like butt.

sphincter wrote:People dilute their listening experience with Ipods and that lark, it's all on random and never listen to an album twice in a row. When you're stuck on a coach for three weeks and you only have one CD or one tape on you you really delve deep into the album and understand it much more. A way better method for falling in love with music.

There is no logic in blaming Ipods for "diluting the listening experience", rather the lack of discipline in the listener is at fault. Shuffle mode is not mandatory. You can listen to albums wholly on an mp3 player.

WoundedFoot wrote:Agreed. I'm not a fan of Ipods. I don't want my whole music collection to be on some digital index card. Sometimes, when I was traveling around with a portable CD player and just one album, those albums I'd play over and over became some of my favorites of all time. SY's Sister comes to mind.

You can accidently fallen in love with an album on any medium.

Yeah, obviously you can choose to listen to an album on repeat on an ipod but the tendancy is not to, there's a whole world of temptation there isn't there? I can totally admit if that I had an ipod in my hands with my whole record collection on it I'd be lazy/stupid and go nuts with it, I think a lot of people are the same perhaps and I'd have to make myself get into albums instead of it just happening naturally.

Perhaps you wouldn't, good for you.

I generally think that people who are into music and collect lots of it are probably prepared to put money into a decent sound system even if it is over an extended period. The vinyl format can be pushed futher into a higher quality 'band' of sound than CDs can if a good enough system is developed/bought. For this reason I prefer Vinyl to CD in general, but I still love CDs and buy plenty, they seem to sound great on most modern systems and are very user friendly.

gcbv wrote:
The other major aspect of high gram vinyl, albeit the major reason, is the ability to cut deeper physical grooves into the record, vastly improving the ability for the needle to transduce a more accurate waveform...and therefore, higher fidelity.

The most obvious aspect of this would be low-end signal information. With high weight LPs (if mastered properly, you know), you can easily discern a major difference.

Actually this isn't true. all records are cut onto similar laquer (or copper) masters, regardless of the type of vinyl they will be pressed to. hence groove depth is determined ultimately by the depth of laquer on the master disc. i.e. cut too deep and you'd cut into the aluminium below. groove depth is also affected by the level of the cut, obviousy louder program needs a deeper groove. but a deeper groove takes up more room on the disc so the side length is the ultimate factor.

as to sound qualty of vinyl i think using good virgin vinyl affects sound quality more than weight even, though weight is good obviously

D

I ordered mine off Amazon....£15, they ripped me off.

I wanna upgrade my entry level turntable but don't have huge amounts of cash so won't be splashing out for one of those geeky VPI whatever-a-thons, anyone got any solid, realistic recommendations?

sphincter wrote:I wanna upgrade my entry level turntable but don't have huge amounts of cash so won't be splashing out for one of those geeky VPI whatever-a-thons, anyone got any solid, realistic recommendations?

Here
Here
Here

andyman wrote:

sphincter wrote:I wanna upgrade my entry level turntable but don't have huge amounts of cash so won't be splashing out for one of those geeky VPI whatever-a-thons, anyone got any solid, realistic recommendations?

Here
Here
Here

One day, I'm going to use that search function.

Cheers.

Clownhunt wrote:
Actually this isn't true. all records are cut onto similar laquer (or copper) masters, regardless of the type of vinyl they will be pressed to. hence groove depth is determined ultimately by the depth of laquer on the master disc. i.e. cut too deep and you'd cut into the aluminium below. groove depth is also affected by the level of the cut, obviousy louder program needs a deeper groove.

But aren't there specific thicker laquer masters used for higher g vinyl, so they my cut deeper grooves?

gcbv wrote:

Clownhunt wrote:
Actually this isn't true. all records are cut onto similar laquer (or copper) masters, regardless of the type of vinyl they will be pressed to. hence groove depth is determined ultimately by the depth of laquer on the master disc. i.e. cut too deep and you'd cut into the aluminium below. groove depth is also affected by the level of the cut, obviousy louder program needs a deeper groove.

But aren't there specific thicker laquer masters used for higher g vinyl, so they my cut deeper grooves?

no we use the same 14" master laquers for everything. the cutting engineer probably won't know whether his cut will end up on thick thin vinyl or a pic disc or whatever.

D