larry david uses the word mullato, with hilarious results.

Boombats wrote:Trilo makes a good point about the gender thing, although I don't know if every black man that says nigger is automatically going to refer to a black woman as a bitch- at least no more than re: a white woman.

no, a person who says one doesn't always say the other.

i've never heard women using "ho" as a term of endearment but i've heard "bitch" used with a sense of camaraderie; "my bitches". there's this segment on a gang starr album that kind of comes out of nowhere in which this woman gives a series of shout-outs to all her "black-ass bitches" and whatnot. i guess it makes sense in that "bitch" could mean someone that men are afraid of, or can't handle (and hey, men use "my dog" as a compliment -- and bitch is technically not very different), whereas a ho is never seen as something fearsome or proud, just degraded in a specific sexual way.

I really have to say it depends on who is saying it and why regardless of what race they are.
Take for example the scene in school days when Samuel Jackson's character tells Lawrence Fishburnes character something to the effect of "yall college kids think you better than us, you niggers just like we are and that's all you ever gonna be". to which LF replies "Don't you get it you're not niggers."

Some black people use it in a derogatory way too, of course it doesn't hold the same kind of weight or power when a white person says it, for obvious historical and social reasons. Q-tip addressed this issue quite eloquently on the song "sucka nigga" off of "?Midnight marauders" and I am to quote a user on another thread a "mixey-mix"

Just don't say niggardly. You can get fired for that shit, especially if you are a teacher.

Nigga, It don't matter!

That shit must stop, I don't care how black you are, quit autostereotyping yourself. Some words are more than words.

I think it depends upon the context, and to whom you're talking. For myself, I don't feel comfortable using either word.

The "n" word for me has some bad memories attached to it, because growing up in the Joliet area in the 1980s, there were a lot of racist pigs who'd use that word only in a disparaging or insulting way.

One guy in particular, a real asshole from the neighborhood where I grew up, used that word all the time. He was generally very tactless and ignorant. He said a lot of very offensive things regardless of the company he was in, and used to make awful racist jokes and comments just out of the blue. Most of the people in the neighborhood hated him and he used to get beat up regularly. One day about 15 years ago, I was driving in my car and I heard his name on the news. Apparently he and 2 other guys had been arrested in Florida for attempted murder of some black guy they'd met in a bar. They'd taken him to a remote field, poured gasoline on him and set him on fire.

Whenever I hear a white guy say the word "nigger" I think of racist assholes like that guy from Joliet.

And I'm not really enough into hip-hop culture to really be comfortable with the word "nigga". To me it's just slightly different pronunciation of the same word, like a "Tomato, Tomato, potato, potato" sort of thing.

What's with all these racism threads all of the sudden?

Colonel Panic wrote:What's with all these racism threads all of the sudden?

9/11 conspiracy theory withdrawal.

I hate the word and have a visceral aversion to it. I don't think anyone should use it (or its supposedly more acceptable, "friendly" variation, which I think is also bullshit), but white people lost their n-word privileges a long time ago. That includes telling black people whether they should use it or not. Not my business.

Being a longtime rap fan, this is an intriguing question for me (which will surely achieve resolution on an internet music-themed message board).

I will now offer up some anecdotal observations.

• During my time in NYC from 1981-1987 (lived in Harlem, went to school in East Harlem), I did not hear the n-word used by my grade- and middle-school peers (many/most of whom were black). It was a word I knew, & that I know others knew (how could we not?) but in hindsight, my impression is that the word was felt/known to be "bad." I can't say when that changed.

• In the late '90s, I was in Somerville (outlying sub-district of Boston LOL) & heard a white teenager utter the following in response to a passing driver who honked at him & his friends for being in the street: "Yo, chill out. Be natural, nigga."

• Chuck D (a rapper who I respect a great deal, despite certain differences in opinion over the years) has compared the n-word with "punk," saying that they're both words that you can't "reclaim" and make positive or at least less hurtful. Not sure I agree, but it's a valid entry to the discussion. (Note: in the black community, "punk" has been a slang term for "homosexual.")

• A friend of mine with black/white parentage says his parents dislike of Richard Pryor stems in large part to the fact that he brought the word back into the black vernacular.

• El-P, a white rapper, used the line as self-description on his first Company Flow 12" single. He has never used it since, & on the CD compilation of old Co-Flow tracks (released by Co-Flow's black DJ, Mr. Len), the word is blanked out.

• As a 34-year-old rap fan, a white person & someone who spent half my "growing up" years in NYC, I would never use the n-word about, with or to anyone I know, black or white (or myself). Not as in "you nigger" or as in "you my nigga." Just can't, just won't.

• I do enjoy racial comedy (vs. "racist" comedy), but I find it a fine line, & few walk it well. Most poeple I've heard that do, aren't in front of a microphone. Which isn't to say that it's a censorship thing or that it has to be done in secret -- but more to say that the average standup dude (or lady; paging a Miss Silverman) has less concern with refined comedic subtleties than with getting the big laughs. This is an area where a lengthy digression/exploration would fit; I'll leave that to someone with less work to do today.

• The whole Dude, it's just a word, what's the big deal, you need to chill out, it doesn't bother me if you call me "honky" "argument" is out the goddamn window pretty much across the board, but especially when voiced by middle class white guys (which it generally seems to be). Sorry, bros, it'll take more than the old sticks & stones gag to sort this out, & you're not helping by pretending to try.

• Check out "R&B" by Devin the Dude for a fun song.

Antero: I ain't messin wit no broke, broke!


Mr. Graham