Lu Zwei wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 3:33 pm Oh man, tell me about it. I can write good chunk of lyrics all the time, but I always struggle to "implement" them properly on time and I always wait close to a recording session to come up with something useful.

Yep. Exact same. Then I have to go back in months later and do them properly. Hate it.

I do not have that luxury and I never thought of that before.

No, I don't have that luxury.

I'm really lucky the guy who records us likes us and gives us stupidly cheap deals. And puts up with me being a nightmare.

I find I work on simple acoustic guitar but other times I work stuff out using recording tech/overdubbing. Sometimes I wonder if I create better stuff where I'm writing "as arrangement" and thinking of how the parts all fit together, or if chords, melody, lyrics as a focus builds a better foundation.

Generally, after writing upwards of a couple hundred songs in 30 years each time I do it feels like I've never done it before. Indeed, some of my stuff that I'm actually satisfied with is intimidating as I start from scratch. Like, can I do it again? That's what I love most about the practice it's endless and the psychological challenges are always there. The flow state when you're in the zone and the rare moments of thinking your own shit is kind of cool, or not knowing where it came from are worth the torment and doubt.

Some tips I may have shared on a similar thread:

-Squirrel away tidbits of lyrical use in a notebook or notepad app. Sometimes the best shit is from a pile of shiny things you have in your pocket.
- Productivity precedes quality. Three shit songs and one gem are better than half a shit song and abandoning ship.
- Working on a few things at once sometimes helps.
- There's nothing wrong with hearing a song and trying to lift an element to make your own song. Choosing disparate elements from two different songs can sometimes be better. Failed copying sometimes leads to innovation especially when you're working with others. They don't play exactly what's in your head which is a good thing.
-Finishing is important and can be as daunting as starting.

Last. I put together a game/club with fellow songwriters. Every participant has enjoyed it, said it's boosted their game and many of their contributions have become part of their regular band. Basically 3-8 people sign on, present one song with something worth noticing by an artist they like. I put their model songs in a hat. Draw them and assign each participant a model. In a limited time (2-3 weeks) they have to write and demo a response. Connection to the model song is artistic not necessarily logical. It can be a lyrical response, borrow a structural approach, steal a chord progression whatever. Demos can be lofi, and nothing has to be "good". At the end I put audio files and lyrics on a Google doc. Everyone soaks up each other's contributions. Then we have a meeting. Sort of a workshop model where we take turns discussing each work. The songwriter can't talk until the end of the discussion and then they usually have questions to answer.

This is better over drinks or coffee. It gets very inside baseball and is always fascinating and inspiring.

Here is my songwriting process during the pandemic.

When COVID hit, my roommate/bandmate and I threw our ratty old couch away and moved our guitars, amps, keyboard, drum machine/sampler, and 4-track into the living room. He was dating a lady who lived several hours away and would go stay with her for a couple weeks at a time. Before he left he'd leave me lyrics for 3-4 songs with vague instructions for each ("Make this one a slow burner" "Make this one sound like Lungfish" "Make this one sound like Guided By Voices" "Do whatever you want with this one" etc).

I would wake up every morning, eat breakfast, shower, turn the equipment on and go to work. By the time he got back into town I'd have demos ready for each song. He would record his vocals and do some tweaking here and there. Then he would bail again, leaving me another passel of lyrics.

In this manner we wrote and recorded demos for maybe thirty songs in about a year. I also worked on a few of my own plus another dozen or so for a band that never materialized. It was the most creative period of my life. I'm definitely ready for retirement.

Now I'm in three wildly diverse bands and our songwriting processes are all over the road.

jfv wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 3:09 pm 1. I write something.

2. I throw it out.

Pretty much been this way for about 15 years now.

I also don’t do well finishing songs. For me, there’s often a crisis of confidence moment, or I get hung up on a detail that derails everything. Maybe having a partner who could help out in certain situations would get me over the hump in these places?

I dunno, I used to do ok with songwriting when I was playing with 2 other people, but doing it solo is particularly hard for me, and mainly in decision-making areas.

twelvepoint wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 7:40 am
I dunno, I used to do ok with songwriting when I was playing with 2 other people, but doing it solo is particularly hard for me, and mainly in decision-making areas.

I'm convinced for most of us doing it as part of a collaboration or at least being accountable to bring the material to a waiting project is just better. I tinker with things because my musical appetites exceed the bandwidth of a middle aged person's band, but I feel the one-man-band/auteur concept is very overrated. Most magic happens when material seems to leave your control and sharing it with other musicians does this more.

I still value a process that can generate stuff worth bringing to a band. For me that's usually stuff that is at least 60% finished.

Yeah, writing solo is more difficult, but that is also what makes it a good exercise. It's worth forcing yourself through the process even if you don't want to share the final results (but you might!) It will make you a better, more empathetic collaborator in your main bands. I got real tired of working with people who write solely from their own perspective, not considering how boring the bass or drum parts for their songs are to play.

Big fan of EZ Drummer.

I am a primarily a guitar player, but this is how I have been writing songs lately (the last 3 years or so). I have learned that I work really well with limitations (at least in the building the bones of the song). It helps me to think of whatever I am doing as a demo or sketch no matter what.

I get a vague sense of what kind of song I want to make. I go to EZ drummer and lay out a drum pattern (fiddle with it), and then do another drum pattern that works with with the first one. Will it be an intro and a verse? A long intro? A verse and chorus? WHO KNOWS.

I loop those two drum patterns and pick up a bass and play along. Usually I find something that is cool or decent. Sometimes its fucking duh-duh basic shit, other times its a really good riff into another really cool riff. From this, I get a sense of where the song wants to go.

I go back to EZ Drummer and now add another drum part (if I need a chorus, I do that, if I need a bridge I do that). In EZ drummer sometimes I just pull one of their loops other times I just tap out my own thing. Then I sequence all the drum parts.

Back to playing bass over a loop of all the drums. Find more bass parts that I like. Once I am happy I record all the bass stuff over the drums.

During this, as a guitar player I have been sort of getting ideas of what a guitar would do. So then I go through the whole song adding guitar stuff.

Then I sing gibberish over it, trying to find a melody or vocal line, something. Then I try to make real lyrics that fit the structure the gibberish provided.

After all of that I present it to the band, who then take my ideas and make them better, or sees what the intent is and throw my shit out and create something new with the same idea only better.

I began playing piano at 4 and drums a few years later. Having a rudimentary understanding of the technical aspects of writing a song I appreciate the input of other band members because when left to my own devices it's all about me and I can be a bit much.

It starts w a melody in my head or just dicking around on a bass, keyboard, or guitar until the melody takes shape. I then throw it to everyone else to flesh out what I technically can't accomplish. Usually if I'm writing on guitar it takes a lot of practice and advice to truly express what's in my head. Once it's out there I immediately forget how to play it because I'm focused on drumming and/or arranging. Most of the songs I wrote for my old band I wouldn't know how to approach on any other instrument except for the drums, and I wrote the thing. Sad!