zorg wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:44 pm

iembalm wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:21 pm

zorg wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 4:18 pm
Quote one reliable source.

I usually stay out of the politics threads, but it seems you have left off the " /s " in that post.

Too numerous to count, huh? Go on then, I’ll take just one threat to invade Finland or any other EU country.

zorg wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:37 am

Shananiganz wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 12:21 am

zorg wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 4:18 pm
Quote one reliable source.

Managed to find some recent articles in English, just for you. They are threats due Finland joining NATO. Now you'll probably defend Russia and say we caused it by joining NATO?
https://yle.fi/a/74-20045134
https://yle.fi/a/74-20065457
https://yle.fi/a/3-12405420
https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000010212372.html This one is in Finnish, but you can see the cockcocket Medvedev's tweet embedded there.

This is from 2012, still about NATO. The thing is, majority of Finnish people were against joining NATO at this time.
https://jamestown.org/program/general-m ... n-finland/

The mood changed drastically when the Ukrainian invasion kicked off again.

Is this enough? Would you have some tea with it?

Hey, sorry if I was being obnoxious, I'm mostly American, so it comes easily. My point was not to disprove you, or to defend Russia. I hope I made it clear in previous posts that I lump them in with the rest of the untenable and corrupt maximalist megastates that rule the world. My thought is I find it disappointing that a place like Sweden or Finland, which are famously the envy of the world with freedoms, copious parental leave, and good math scores want to spend their time grandstanding with these other idiots instead of seeking peace and reconciliation. And so I ask why.

I appreciate the references, and while you are completely correct that the mood has soured, nothing here points toward any kind of aggression from Russia. If I missed it please let me know. Otherwise, do you really think that Finland hosting NATO's largest artillery exercise ever held in Europe, while at the same time materially waging a proxy war against Russia all while sanctioning them, is going to endear you to them? I would say considering the circumstances the quotes here are really very diplomatic. From what you sent - Putin on Finland (after the invasion): "Did we have any disputes with them? All disputes, including territorial ones in the mid-20th century, have long since been solved, there were no problems there" You could say that is just a devious lie, but why then have they have loudly shouted their dominion over Ukraine for ages? It's not fair to Ukraine for EU to act like victims.

Finally, no fault of yours, but we have to be exceedingly careful with our sources. It is also happening on a broad scale elsewhere, but Americans have created various NGOs and "Think Tanks" that operate as propaganda machines aligned, but not formally affiliated with the government. The Jamestown Foundation you quoted is a hawkish conservative military organization founded by the CIA to get juicy stories out of Russian defectors.

It's an ugly world out there, lets be nice to each-other, and please not support the military industrial complex, anywhere, ever.

zorg wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:44 am

jimmy spako wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:10 am Harris would have been susceptible to pressure.
Trump is not.

You might have a point there. I guess my concern is that I don't see the pro-Israel lobby faltering.

Gramsci wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:44 am

zorg wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:44 am

jimmy spako wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:10 am Harris would have been susceptible to pressure.
Trump is not.

You might have a point there. I guess my concern is that I don't see the pro-Israel lobby faltering.

Firstly, I totally empathise with your position. I've held my nose in almost every election I've voted in and it gets boring. But I think now we have the far right on the rise my nose is getting held again. I really struggled voting for Starmer and Co. (Luckily Corbyn is my local MP). But I voted Lib Dem once to my shame, not that it made a stick of difference in a First Passed the Post election in my constituency... fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... umm, can't get fooled again.

Frankie99 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 11:25 am The foe list is your friend. There are some super misinformed and disingenuous people out there with whom an argument does nothing but give your doc a reason to prescribe BP meds.

It only takes one or two on your foe list to make this a much more rational and functional discussion.

Frankie99 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 11:31 am Any leftist who advocates for the continued occupation of land by an imperial power (Russia, China, USA) under any auspices should be met with complete and total distrust. This should be the default position, however some self avowed online leftists think that the authoritarian govs of half baked psuedo marxists should be offered more latitude than others when it comes to human rights abuses. They should not. They should be evaluated on their actions alone, not their claimed belief systems they do not practice.

In much the same way America calls itself a democracy when it is not, we need to call those states what they all are - Imperial Powers.

Shananiganz wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:50 am We now have Coalition Party and the True Finns running the show, fucking up our once beautiful social security and everything that was good and right.