matyas wrote:A ring-mod (also called balanced modulator) works using amplitude modulation. It multiplies two signals (a carrier and a modulator) together to produce sum and difference tones. So if your carrier has a frequency of 100 Hz, and your modulator has a frequency of 400 Hz, you'll get sidebands at 300 Hz (400 - 100) and 500 Hz (400 + 100).

Slight clarification: a balanced modulator is a kind of ring modulator which has a supplied carrier frequency, usually being the input itself but it can also be just a generated wave form. If the 2 wave forms are the same, you're getting an octave effect, until you get into chords, at which all hell can break loose.

A true ring modulator can use anything as the carrier, from gregorian chants to sine waves to the latest popular musical CD from a significant artist. These were invented for FM radios to help sort out the modulated radio waves and can be extremely unmusical, but occasionally very fun.

And generally they provide sum and difference, not multiples - as your math illustrated.

For an example of a properly deployed balanced modulator, I refer you to the song "Hobbies", which features a very noisy modulated guitar:
http://www.myspace.com/ovipositor

I love how nasty that guitar sound is. very nice.

I asked this in the moogerfooger thread, but at what point would you put a ring mod for best use? I usually run octave->distortion (one or two) and delay -> where have you found them to work the best?

kerble wrote:I asked this in the moogerfooger thread, but at what point would you put a ring mod for best use? I usually run octave->distortion (one or two) and delay -> where have you found them to work the best?

I'd say you're going to get a different result where ever it is and you just have to suck it and see. I'm not saying that as a cop-out. I have sustain>compressor>green ringer>boost>octaveishdistortionmodulatorthing (commonly called the brayer), and so I use modulators at 2 points.

I like the ringer with some compression up front on single strings and octaves/fifths because it makes for a very fat distorted tone. It benefits from having a compressor or two in front of it for that sound because it makes the response more even.

I also use the green ringer in non-harmonious rhythm parts, and for that having the boost after it keeps it more audible and can create interesting sustain/feedback cycles which taper off in interesting ways. The dynamic range with the boost afterwards can be all kinds of crazy, and shows a pretty dramatic relationship to the harmonies produced (ie, loud sound going in, lots of harmonies, quiet sounds less so, with a very steep slope down the closer you get to silent). This also has the added effect of working as a gate because it nulls out the carrier frequency when there's no input so no feedback. The ability to make an astonishingly loud noise after silence is quite handy, especially if you hate your neighbors.

And the brayer at the end is an x factor. It causes all kinds of crazy sounds to happen, and is very sensitive to what's in front of it. I've put it up front but it works differently there and I like the sounds I get out of it the way it's set up currently so why change?

I use both of those pedals alone or in tandem a lot, too. No matter where it is in the chain that sound tends to be the dominant sound in whatever's going on. Not sure how either pedal would respond to distortion. Not sure you'd want it after the delay, necessarily.

I can't answer for the moog fooger. The only person I know who owns and operates one is Angus Jung, but I don't think he uses any other pedals. Plus it's a different beast, with a lot of variables at play.

Good luck.

awesome. thanks. It's not a cop out of an answer at all. When I was in the shop, I tested it out both ways. in a month or so, when I can afford it, I'll be able to experiment. Angus jung and I have been playing phone tag for a few weeks, I'll pick his brain, too.


thx.



Faiz

farts

TRIFECTA wrote:farts

indeed but:

Here are some basic balanced modulator (DSB) circuits.

http://www.nzart.org.nz/nzart/Exam/AMAT ... Mixers.htm

http://www.ycars.org/EFRA/Module%20B/AMTX%20Intro.htm

DIY: I'm gonna try 1N34 diodes and try and keep the signal well over +4dBu (to minimize diode turn-on distortion) or a pair of 6AL5 tubes (yeeaahh). Maybe drive it with a dbx166 or something for each input as suggested above.

You can hear very nice ring mod guitar sounds on The Flaming Lips: Clouds Taste Metallic. When his guitar sounds all chimey and bell like... that's it.

I built one into a TV with a fuzz circuit attached. It sounds like nightmares drowning in a pillowcase with 6 baby cats. Completely unmusical. I love it.

Next step is to build a Theremin into the same TV and have a Ring-Theremin.

I'm going to get a set of bunny ears to control the Theremin.

The Korg multi effects have a ring modulator as does the Yamaha magic box (uses a osolator to get it to go up and down a range). EH make a ring mod used by devo nice sound.

Alysis - Bitrman is a ring mod among other things (this is nice and does a number of different related sounds. Ibanez has a modulaton pedal that does nice stuff includeing phaseing and trem and FM mod. A bunch of Alysis stuff has ring modulators in it Akira - Air Fx.

The before mentioned Moog and Green Ringer (build a kit general guitar gadgets) There is also some clones of the Mastro (Oberheim) ring moduler clone kits (this was the first box of this type). As well there are a bunch of synth ring modulator kits they may not be guitar friendly depending on their design.

DOD made a cheep Ring mod/Fuzz called the "Gonkulator" I'm sure those could be found on Ebay for very little.

I have heard good things about the DOD for the price. What a waked name "Gonkulator". I guess you have to be in the know.

The EH is called a "Frequency Analyser" another unclear name. Better than the "Bell Balz".

The Moog is suposed to be killer but you got to feel pretty flush to put out the cash. I use ring modulators a lot but not enough to spend this kind of money.