dtboy wrote:Tim Lahaye's series

If only I could enjoy it in its widescreen theatrical glory.

"The various modes of worship, which prevailed in the Roman world, were all considered by the people, as equally true; by the philospher, as equally false; and by the magistrate, as equally useful."
-Edward Gibbon

Bush's (and the religious right agenda from the top) professed religion and moral standing are a tool to influence the people. Bush's "born-again" moment was all about tapping the huge numbers of brainwashed, or at least naive, members of the Fundamentalist, Evangelical, and Pentecostal faiths, as well as those from the more moderate faiths. It's a case of cynical politics - play to where the money and the easily led can be found. Those sects of the Christian religion have become increasingly powerful over the last 30 plus years. They have a vast infrastructure, can preach their politics to their churchgoers via a massive media outlet or in person, and have fundraising structures that rival the 2-party political systems'. It's a perfect union, in the minds of people like Rove, et al.

To paraphrase, he argues that the reason the new Republicans don't care about balancing budgets is that the Return of the Messiah is coming. The Rapture is on the horizon.

If you're in that modality then, I seem to recall that the Bible says no one will know when the end is. So I guess Christians that claim "they know" the rapture is coming haven't read "The good Book'

Philips is giving these guys too much credit. Saying that these guys believe that the Rapture will save America from the consequences of their actions presupposes that these guys give a fuck about America or the consequences of their actions. Dick Cheney doesn't care about the debt - not because the Rapture will wipe it clean, but because Dick Cheney knows that Dick Cheney won't have to pay that debt. Fuck us and our children and grandchildren. George Bush doesn't care about civil war in Iraq - not because he thinks he's doing God's work, but because George Bush knows that George Bush won't have to fight in this or any other war. Fuck our soldiers and fuck the Iraqis.

You or I or Kevin Philips might take solace in a story about the Rapture, if you or I or Philips were doing evil and could bring ourselves to believe in such a story. Bush, Cheney, et al. don't have any trouble sleeping at night.

Dick Cheney isn't being forced to care about the debt because too much of the base doesn't believe it will matter. It's not necessarily the powers-that-be that are Rapture-waiters- it's enough traditional economic Repubs who used to care about balancing budgets who have tilted radically to the Rapture-right and no longer hold conservatives in power to balancing the books the way they once at least tried to.

And yea yea yea, I know, Reagan loaded up deficits and debt and James Watt wanted to sell the national forests cuz the Savior was coming, but this new breed is taking it to whole new levels on the financial front

On the one hand, there are the stated beliefs of specific branches of western churches. What the Catholic church says in its statements, what the Episcopal church says in its statements, what the Lutheran church says etc etc. These statements would be the product of high-level councils convening and discussing a specific agenda of topics, and coming to their best scholarly conclusions and the like.

On the other hand, there are the beliefs of individual people within each of the various branches of the various western churches. You could talk about whatever "most" of the people in the Presbyterian church believe with regard to stuff the like end times, if you were to conduct a survey of a sufficient sample of Presbyterians. I'm confident nobody here has done anything of the sort.

Then there's the third hand, where people think about what might be an exciting way for things to be... for example, I find it exciting to think that George Bush is a lizard-man, a la the teevee minseries "V".

That is about how accurate this article is, or any statements made by people on this thread are, with regard to Bush's thoughts, Cheney's thoughts, or their motivations. Nobody here is doing anything more than pulling ideas out of the air, ideas that are fun to think about for whatever reason. Any claims as to what these people think, feel, or hold to be fact, these are just speculations that don't necessarily have any basis in reality. Do they believe the world is about to end? Do they really?

And if they really do believe that the world is about to end, do they think that it's in their own best interest, or anyone else's, that they send the country down the shitter? Is that something they'd voluntarily do, to have their last action on earth to be something other than work hard at doing their job, and work dilligently at being the best Christian they could be? Can someone please explain this logically, how "it's the End Times" would be a call to anything other than serious hard work at being as good as possible?

It's quite an amazing racket.

Hey, we're going to bankrupt the nation, provoke the terrorists ( or invent our own if we can't provoke them quickly enough ), and try and make sure that somebody with a clean shot at Israel gets their hands on nukes because that will bring about the Rapture, but don't worry, it's God's will, right there in Revelations.

Imagine if they're right. What if God really is demented enough to reward a cabal of genocidal maniacs?

And imagine if they're wrong. Either way, God will have made some true believers very, very rich, whether he actually intended to or not. I think that's the source of God's enduring popularity; since he's invisible and incommunicado, his motives are in the hands of the best liars. They can make Him be whoever they need Him to be. You don't have to actually know what you're doing- you just have to make people think you know what God is doing.

scott wrote:I find it exciting to think that George Bush is a lizard-man, a la the teevee minseries "V".

I don't. I like Diana. Diana was one hot lizard lady.

How about this:

Americans that support this war pay a war tax to pay for it.

I would also like to see a manditory draft from that group as well but that might be a little much.

Why am I forced to support this bullshit war with my tax money?

This country is fucked, dudes.

Marlowe wrote:
Why am I forced to support this bullshit war with my tax money?

This country is fucked, dudes.

You're not entirely *forced*. You could just move to another country.

It worked for me.