Rick Reuben wrote:yaledelay wrote:have they ever been used to actally stop a crime in process???
Almost. That one time.
¡BOOYAKASHA!
Well played.
Public Surveillance Cameras
11¡BOOYAKASHA!
Well played.
¡BOOYAKASHA!
Well played.
Public Surveillance Cameras
12Lots and lots of waffles, but they help catch baddies, and that's not crap.
Public Surveillance Cameras
13space junk wrote:Lots and lots of waffles, but they help catch baddies, and that's not crap.
Put more cops on the street, how about that?
If an administration says it's illegal to be on the street after 12:00, we become criminals. It's all downhill from here.
Marsupialized wrote:I want a piano made out of jello.
It's the only way I'll be able to achieve the sound I hear in my head.
Public Surveillance Cameras
14I object to them.
On top of that, they don't work. In London, you're caught on camera 300 times a day, but the only reduction in crime from the cameras has been in regards to vehicular crime (and is basically the result of catching more car thieves rather than from deterrence)
((I always have to resist going totally twitchy when this topic comes up because I spent six months studying surveillance issues for my BA thesis))
On top of that, they don't work. In London, you're caught on camera 300 times a day, but the only reduction in crime from the cameras has been in regards to vehicular crime (and is basically the result of catching more car thieves rather than from deterrence)
((I always have to resist going totally twitchy when this topic comes up because I spent six months studying surveillance issues for my BA thesis))
http://www.myspace.com/leopoldandloebchicago
Linus Van Pelt wrote:I subscribe to neither prong of your false dichotomy.
Public Surveillance Cameras
15Hasn't England got the world's highest concentration of street cameras (or at least an extraordinarily high concentration of them)?
I'd be interested in hearing about how long they've been in use in the UK (I presume it hasn't been a short time), and how their use has affected crime statistics and everyday life on the long term.
They've only made a difference in vehicular infractions, eh? Does that mean that most of the cameras set up are of the speed measuring variety which take your picture when you break the speed limit?
I'd be interested in hearing about how long they've been in use in the UK (I presume it hasn't been a short time), and how their use has affected crime statistics and everyday life on the long term.
They've only made a difference in vehicular infractions, eh? Does that mean that most of the cameras set up are of the speed measuring variety which take your picture when you break the speed limit?
Public Surveillance Cameras
16I voted WAFFLES.
In general, the idea doesn't sit comfortably with me. But I can give a specific example where it has at least made my life easier (and GJHardwick's and honeyisfunny's, I would guess - although I'll leave them to input their feelings about it).
There is a very, very dodgy pub near where I live. It's at the intersect of four roads, and used to serve as the meeting place for the areas's "tastier" residents. Where I live isn't exactly the ghetto, but it's not the burbs either - there's a real problem with hard drug use, plenty of violent crime, a few gangs around. This place used to be a really hairy spot - I used to dread walking past there pretty much at any time of day, but especially at night. It simply wasn't very safe. The local crack dealers knocked out from that corner, the local alcoholics congregated there, gangs of friendly youngsters swarmed around. You couldn't really walk past there without getting at least some pretty sinister stares and a bit of verbal abuse - and it was listed in a council/police survey as one of the top ten mugging hotspots in the city.
The police decided on the basis of their findings to first send out a mobile camera unit on a regular basis, and finally install a permanent camera there. It's made the area a lot safer - people still gather there but in much smaller numbers; noone openly deals crack there anymore; even the pub clientele seem to have calmed down a bit. It's genuinely improved my quality of life a bit.
Of course, it didn't solve the problem, merely covered it up, dispersed it. It's a purely cosmetic gesture in one sense - the crack dealers didn't stop dealing, the alcoholics didn't go dry, the gangs of kids didn't quit harrassing bystanders and no doubt the muggings just happen elsewhere. A camera isn't a solution to anything in this sense, and that is where the contemporary British government's thinking goes awry. In fact, cctv policies probably just push these social problems further underground. But then, part of me - a cynical, nihilistic part that I don't like that much, I hasten to add - thinks, "Well, fuck it. I suppose I'm a bit safer, and I no longer have to put up with these cunts in my daily life. Let them fuck themselves up on their own somewhere away from me."
When we promoted a show for The Evens maybe 25 metres from said crime hotspot, Ian MacKaye had something to say about the cameras. He must have noticed them, and between songs he said to the audience [paraphrased] "So earlier, I was walking around and I saw a police van with a camera parked on the corner just outside here. Can you believe that shit?" He then went on to outline the usual arguments about invasion of civil liberties, etc. I found myself thinking, "Ian, I love you'n'all, but really, if you lived here you'd understand why that camera is there and why many people welcome it."
The cameras are CRAP in many ways - if you believe they'll actually solve social/crime problems, if the data they record can be used to abuse civil liberties, disseminate personal information, etc. But I do think under certain circumstances, whilst not ideal, they can be NOT CRAP - or at least make things a little safer for people who shouldn't have to put up with a certain element making their lives worse.
Therefore, WAFFLES.
In general, the idea doesn't sit comfortably with me. But I can give a specific example where it has at least made my life easier (and GJHardwick's and honeyisfunny's, I would guess - although I'll leave them to input their feelings about it).
There is a very, very dodgy pub near where I live. It's at the intersect of four roads, and used to serve as the meeting place for the areas's "tastier" residents. Where I live isn't exactly the ghetto, but it's not the burbs either - there's a real problem with hard drug use, plenty of violent crime, a few gangs around. This place used to be a really hairy spot - I used to dread walking past there pretty much at any time of day, but especially at night. It simply wasn't very safe. The local crack dealers knocked out from that corner, the local alcoholics congregated there, gangs of friendly youngsters swarmed around. You couldn't really walk past there without getting at least some pretty sinister stares and a bit of verbal abuse - and it was listed in a council/police survey as one of the top ten mugging hotspots in the city.
The police decided on the basis of their findings to first send out a mobile camera unit on a regular basis, and finally install a permanent camera there. It's made the area a lot safer - people still gather there but in much smaller numbers; noone openly deals crack there anymore; even the pub clientele seem to have calmed down a bit. It's genuinely improved my quality of life a bit.
Of course, it didn't solve the problem, merely covered it up, dispersed it. It's a purely cosmetic gesture in one sense - the crack dealers didn't stop dealing, the alcoholics didn't go dry, the gangs of kids didn't quit harrassing bystanders and no doubt the muggings just happen elsewhere. A camera isn't a solution to anything in this sense, and that is where the contemporary British government's thinking goes awry. In fact, cctv policies probably just push these social problems further underground. But then, part of me - a cynical, nihilistic part that I don't like that much, I hasten to add - thinks, "Well, fuck it. I suppose I'm a bit safer, and I no longer have to put up with these cunts in my daily life. Let them fuck themselves up on their own somewhere away from me."
When we promoted a show for The Evens maybe 25 metres from said crime hotspot, Ian MacKaye had something to say about the cameras. He must have noticed them, and between songs he said to the audience [paraphrased] "So earlier, I was walking around and I saw a police van with a camera parked on the corner just outside here. Can you believe that shit?" He then went on to outline the usual arguments about invasion of civil liberties, etc. I found myself thinking, "Ian, I love you'n'all, but really, if you lived here you'd understand why that camera is there and why many people welcome it."
The cameras are CRAP in many ways - if you believe they'll actually solve social/crime problems, if the data they record can be used to abuse civil liberties, disseminate personal information, etc. But I do think under certain circumstances, whilst not ideal, they can be NOT CRAP - or at least make things a little safer for people who shouldn't have to put up with a certain element making their lives worse.
Therefore, WAFFLES.
Rick Reuben wrote:He went to bed about a decade ago, or whenever he sold his soul to the bankers and the elites.daniel robert chapman wrote:I think he's gone to bed, Rick.
Public Surveillance Cameras
17Vehicular crimes rather than vehicular infractions. They've got a SHITLOAD of cameras of all sorts in London, to the point of being almost ludicrous. I'll dig up the stats later (what as I kept the references)Mazec wrote:Hasn't England got the world's highest concentration of street cameras (or at least an extraordinarily high concentration of them)?
I'd be interested in hearing about how long they've been in use in the UK (I presume it hasn't been a short time), and how their use has affected crime statistics and everyday life on the long term.
They've only made a difference in vehicular infractions, eh? Does that mean that most of the cameras set up are of the speed measuring variety which take your picture when you break the speed limit?
http://www.myspace.com/leopoldandloebchicago
Linus Van Pelt wrote:I subscribe to neither prong of your false dichotomy.
Public Surveillance Cameras
18yaledelay wrote:have they ever been used to actally stop a crime in process??? I highly doubt it... CRAP...
I'd imagine they do a better job of documenting crimes, allowing the police to catch the criminals after the fact, than actually stopping crimes in progress. I can think of a couple of cases where a child was kidnapped and, although the cameras weren't much help at the time, the footage helped identify who took them.
Public Surveillance Cameras
19AlBStern wrote:yaledelay wrote:have they ever been used to actally stop a crime in process??? I highly doubt it... CRAP...
I'd imagine they do a better job of documenting crimes, allowing the police to catch the criminals after the fact, than actually stopping crimes in progress. I can think of a couple of cases where a child was kidnapped and, although the cameras weren't much help at the time, the footage helped identify who took them.
In UK they haven't been successful in preventing crime, from what I hear, but are more successful in gaining convictions.
I believe they are going to install a computerized facial recognition system on the Tube in London, so they can track an individual across town remotely.
Public Surveillance Cameras
20If everyone wears a hoodie, coveres their face with a scarf, are all young black youths or all white youths who wear the same clothes, they aren't going to be worried about being 'caught' on CCTV. Who's going to recognise them? Who would then report them?
There is a new 'initiative' in Sandwell where the cameras shout at the perps in the street to 'embarrass ' them. I think it's hard to embarrass a shithead teenageer unless you debag them in public and make a dog lick their balls. And then you just fuck their mind up and cause them to do untold metal damage to many more people.
Can we all just stop having babies please? Or at least hole annual cullings for nasty pieces of work?
There is a new 'initiative' in Sandwell where the cameras shout at the perps in the street to 'embarrass ' them. I think it's hard to embarrass a shithead teenageer unless you debag them in public and make a dog lick their balls. And then you just fuck their mind up and cause them to do untold metal damage to many more people.
Can we all just stop having babies please? Or at least hole annual cullings for nasty pieces of work?
Tom wrote: I remember going in the back and seeing him headbanging to Big Black. He looked like he was raping the air- really. He had this look on his face like, "yeah air... you know you want it.".