Cowons are awesome. A friend of mine has one. I'd say those and the Archos are the best.

eliya wrote:edit: oh, you have to use iTunes with them.

This is patently false.

I have a Cowon, and I love it. But it too is running Rockbox instead of the original firmware. Rockbox is just better. Should anything happen to the Cowon though, I am probably just going to suck it up and get a fucking iPod.

Get an Archos. They already run Linux, and they even have a model with WiFi/Web browsing capability.

Here's one reason that I would still suggest an Ipod over another competing brand. I had a Samsung Yepp - it was great, really small - great for running which is the reason I got it. It didn't have a hard drive - only a meg or two storage, but that was fine for what I was using it for. Well, about a year after buying it - I upgraded the OS on my computer and the original software no longer worked. Furthermore, Samsung had no intention of porting the software - as it was concentrating more on hard drive based mp3 players. So basically, my mp3 was rendered useless.

With Apple, you can be sure that ITunes will be around and will continue to be upgraded for new OS versions. Lastly, I've yet to see an interface that works as well as Apple's click wheel interface.

My two cents.

iPods probably sell more than all of the other players combined. That doesn't make them the Britney Spears of MP3 players, it makes them The Beatles.
Their reputation is well deserved.

The interface with iTunes in good.
They are well supported.
They are reliable.
The customer service is the best in the business. Notice I didn't say "awesome," but it's far better than the rest.

Best of all, they work.
Always. You don't have to dick around, they set up and work really easily. My mom uses one.

Everyone else is just trying to make a better iPod, but the only people who have been making consistently better iPods have been Apple.

Buying anythng else is a mistake.

-A

Colonel Panic wrote:If you want a good mp3 player that simply allows drag-and-drop copying like an external drive without all that iTunes bullshit, then get an Archos 504, a Zune, or a Creative Zen.

The thing is, the iTunes bullshit works exceptionally well; for organising a large amount of music, it beats the hell out of any drag-and-drop application.

iPods beat the hell out of every other player I've seen, and most friends who bought Creative Xens, iRivers, and whatever other ones that were also popular three or four years ago have moved onto iPods. I've had two (one expired after two years on falling from height onto a hard surface, the other was stolen) and am going to get a third cheap when abroad. As stated above, their design, functionality, reliability and ease of use are impeccable.

Drag-and-drop is not an application. I'm talking about just plugging the mp3 player into my computer, allowing the OS to detect it as a hard drive and just accessing it the normal way via my computer's file system, just as I would with any other storage device. That's the way the Archos, Zunes and Cowons work. You plug it into the computer's USB port, an explorer window pops up, you drag the files and drop them into the window, and you're good to go.


Personally, I find iTunes to be a big pain in my ass. I can organize my music files just fine without it, the same way I organize all my files on my other computers.

iTunes is an ugly, clumsy, slow, glitchy, and advertising-ridden application which is completely unnecessary. You click a menu item, and it locks up while you wait. One errant click and you have to wait for a minute or more while it accesses the "iTunes Store" then fills the entire application window with ads for the latest Alicia Keys, Fergie and Green Day albums. I swear, it's as bad as AOL. It pisses me off that Apple has intentionally placed this annoying software layer between me and my music files to pacify the RIAA with a lame attempt at DRM, and so they can horn in and profit from grabbing a lucrative chunk of the music distribution chain.

For managing the flies on my iPod, I use 3rd party applications (ones without all the ads, latency and runtime freezes) for the same reason I no longer use software like RealPlayer, Nero Burning Rom or AOL. It's a matter of using the software that works best at doing the job that I need it to do, instead of being designed ground-up with the purpose of tying me into the giant marketing scheme of some huge corporation.

I can't believe how so many people have swallowed hook, line & sinker that whole "Apple = easy-to-use, artistic and fun computers for real people, instead of big businessmen" marketing ploy. You zealots ought to wake up and realize that Apple is just as greedy and manipulative as any other electronics company, including Sony.

Sure, iPods are nice. But there are many other mp3 players out there that do the same job (and more), just as well and just as reliably with a lot less hassle than relying on iTunes.

Colonel Panic wrote:Personally, I find iTunes to be a big pain in my ass. I can organize my music files just fine without it, the same way I organize all my files on my other computers.

iTunes is an ugly, clumsy, slow, glitchy, and advertising-ridden application which is completely unnecessary.

Well, with all due respect - I don't think you represent the average Joe when it comes to computer expertise. People like yourself who work with computers in a technical manner on a day to day basis naturally find a lot of GUI based applications bloated - especially one that in essence is just a file maintenance application. I'm not disagreeing with you - just merely pointing out that you don't really reflect the average user. Is ITunes bloated? Sure - but it's probably a lot more straightforward for a mom and pop type user to use than drag and drop based music maintenance.

I've used iTunes massively over the past four years and am genuinely puzzled by the accusations of ugliness and glitchiness; it has always worked fine with me, apart from the pain I had in transferring a library from one computer to another. But a quick search brought up the software necessary for this, and I think they've made this easier in the past year or two.

I like iTunes because I find it intuitive and it does everything that I ask of it at a speed that I'm happy with. I could fiddle around with playlists and the library to my heart's content with little care over file management. I freeze out the ads same as I freeze out the ads on gmail; they're there, but I pay no attention to them.

I have no idea what latency or runtime freezes are; if they mean "weird pauses", then I've had a few, but no more than I can count on my hand. Which impresses me given the stupid amount of music that I've dumped onto the computer.

The "Apple zealot" moan is a strawman in my case, and probably likewise for most of us here. In fact, I recently moved very happily from an aging iBook to this sturdy Dell recently after getting tired of the former and unconvinced of Apple software and hardware value for money.

I'd turn the argument around, in fact: the stench of trendiness seems to put a snarky bias in some against the iPod. But its popularity is because it is the best; I've pissed around with the others.

I guess if you're used to the AOL-style of computing where everything contains pop-up ads and marketing hype, then yeah iTunes is great.

I think it's a hell of a lot easier if it just opens a regular directory window with a listing of the files on the player, so I can dump new ones in there, delete the ones I don't want, or even copy them to my hard drive if I choose. What could be simpler than that?

This whole trend of every damn device shipping with a CD full of crappy, bloated software that takes like 20 times as long to do the same thing as you could on your own... it's just stupid. I recently bought a Kodak digital camera and I took that CD of "EasyShare Software" and threw it right in the garbage. WTF do I need that crap for? It doesn't do anything except shove the Kodak logo in my face for 30 seconds every time I start it up, skin a window in the colors of the Kodak Corporate ID and then rename all my image files in a directory system with cryptic folder names so I can't find a damn single picture without using it. It creates confusion and dependency while serving no useful purpose. Why would I want that crap on my computer?

All I have to do is create a new folder in my Home/Pictures directory, give it a name like "12-13-07 Shellac & Bitter Tears @ Hideout" and drag the pictures in there. I need an application to name a folder for me?

Same with iTunes. All I need to do is rip a CD to a directory then drag the songs I want into a window that represents my mp3 player's hard drive. That's it. All this crap about creating special databases, converting the filename into a 4-letter codename... it's unnecessary and it's a waste of my time and processor cycles.

I bought ERawk an iPod for Christmas., I seriously considered getting her an Archos, but decided to get the iPod because she's used to using mine, and also because she already uses iTunes for her music.

Like I said, iPods are fine machines. But don't go knocking all these other devices until you've tried them.