great discussion this is why i started reading this forum.

i totally agree with ringo on the too many bands idea. or maybe i'm not agreeing but it gets me thinking about my biggest gripe in new york which is that there are too many rock venues and too many bands. bookers don't promote, they expect bands to do it which SUCKS SHWEATY BALLS. especially because there are so many bands and so many venues, you and your rock show are painfully unimportant.

i see some really crappy bands getting shows at some good venues and it just makes me wonder what the fuck we're doing wrong.

Gantry wrote:Great posts ringo, looking forward to reading more. Thanks...

Indeed. When we go on the road i'm often stuck wondering "jesus christ, how the hell did people find clubs before Google Maps?" while calling ahead on my cell phone to the club to give them our ETA.

Started playing out-of-town in 1985. Started touring quite a bit in 1991. Still play a couple dozen shows a year, probably.

Back in the day, it was all on the phone. Had to send people 'tapes.' No or very little money at first, but not as hard to get shows if you could find 'the guy' or 'the girl' in town.

Eventually, the money was about the way it is now. But not as hard to get shows, probably, just so many fewer bands back then. It seemed like a glut at the time, but now, Jesus H.

I know you could book a whole tour a month or so prior to starting it, in the early 90s. We're putting together a July thing now, and we're fourth hold on a NYC club. Fourth hold! It's 5mos away!

As Patrick says, there was a substantial grassroots network that had somewhat less to do with careerism and somewhat more to do w/creating a 'scene.' I'm not really into 'scenes,' but I suppose they're better than 'careers' in 'the music industry.'

The biggest change, honestly, is getting there. Maps, directions, that stuff is absolutely trivial now.

Who remembers the wild west. Remember when you could kill a man who had done a woman wrong and no one cared?

I have nothing to add. I miss touring circa 1995-1996, however, I was also 20-21 then, so I could just miss being young.

Ben

just a side comment, booking some shows here in Montevideo is getting out of hand. we have like, 3-4 venues to play. 1 is not booking shows, another we need contacts and it's filled with gigs until september, and the other is filled until august. august! it's february. wtf.

The pre-cell phone days were a definite bitch. (Obviously, no one was really aware of it much though.)

My brother got one of those "brick" cell phones that you had to plug into your cigarette lighter and I remember thinking, "fuck, that would sure come in handy on tour!"

My band at the time traveled in 2 cars to shows and to be able to communicate with them would have been a real luxury. We had worked out a few ridiculous hand signals to pass various messages but even that didn't work all the time.

(Actually, I still use the one for "I have to take a shit".)

I think Ringo was right on with the rock-star-as-chosen-field-of-study business. I think myspace and Guitar Center are really the only benefactors from this new "career", however. There is still a limited amount of profit in playing music but plenty of girls and venereal disease though.

For the first band I was in that played out a lot , you just called people up and sent tapes around. Mostly word of mouth - "Hey, there's this awesome kid in Champaign who does hall shows." You might know that there was a fanzine in a certain town and have a phone number from the fanzine of the kid who did it, and you'd call him to see if he or anybody else knew somewhere you could play. But by the time I was in a band that was road-worthy, we got on a label that knew a guy, and then we switched from him to a friend of ours who was getting pretty well-established. Man, Albini used to ride our ass for not doing it ourselves..."You're noit lucky to not have to book your own tour! That fucker gets a bigger cut than any member of your band! What are you stupid?"

Booking in Europe? The label(s) knew booking agencies in Europe. I understand that phones and fax machines were used to convey the information in real time. Contracts were sent in the mail. WE ACTUALLY WERE ABLE TO SECURE TRANSIT TO EUROPE ON A PLANE before the internet! Then, as now, you can call an airline and book a flight.

As for finding your way around before Google maps - I must say, I find that quite amusing. God, just think, people could read maps before the internet! But how could they know who to even buy a map from?

God, I miss the touring. I also DON'T miss it. What a bummer it was. It ruled, though.

Hooking up with a more established, seasoned act was considered to be a big break for a lot of young bands back then. Besides the "prestige" factor, there would be less chance of getting lost along the way, having gigs get canceled in favor of bigger 'name' acts, getting ripped off by club owners or promoters, etc.

dontfeartheringo wrote:"This fucker in Mobile will NOT PAY YOU unless you button hole him BEFORE he starts doing cocaine."

Oh, you played Vincent Van Go Go?

Don't remember anything about the cocaine, but that fucker took some convincing, you got that right. It's always great when somebody gives you a sob story and when you get up in their face, they happen to have the exact amount in their shirt pocket. There's an awesome US Maple (or maybe Shorty) story about that dude, but I can't remember the details...

cesb wrote:God, I miss the touring. I also DON'T miss it. What a bummer it was. It ruled, though.

I know exactly how you feel. This last year my band did a national tour. It wasn't a massive major tour, but it was 18 shows in about 22 days (two shows were cancelled, or it would have been 20). I figured it out after I got back; nine of the shows were good, and we traveled 9,000 miles... so it was 1,000 miles per good show.

No matter the hardwood floors, the severe weather, the being trapped in a crappy restaurant with 8 hours to kill, the 16 hour drives, etc, there's always the one good show where everything comes together in front of your friends and cheers you up.

Still, this last tour was different. I definitely remember the awesome shows in Chicago and Milwaukee and Boston. I remember the beautiful parts of the country. When I got home this time, there was a new level of exhaustion, of being just morally and physically beaten.

Yet recently, I've been daydreaming about touring with my one man band. Not a bid thing, just hitting the west coast cities with a day off in between shows with time to camp or actually see the cities. I still think I'm insane.

Also, I have an hourly job. Every day on tour was a day without pay. I saved up for months. Still, I personally "lost" almost $2,500 (pre tax) by hitting the road for 3 weeks. Obviously, it's not about the money at this level. It's just hard to not think about that when driving through Missouri after sleeping on a hardwood floor surrounded by dead cockroaches, and the show the night before had 10 people in attendance, and the show that was supposed to happen the night before that was cancelled because of floods, and it's 95 and humid and you miss your girlfriend... and sane weather. it's hard not to go down the pat of actually liking being a wage slave.

Ben