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I guess mother's milk is also off-limits for vegans.

The part that really pissed me off is that they claimed they didn't know there was anything wrong until minutes before their baby died.

I mean, are they so mentally deficient that they can't even notice when a baby is dying of malnutrition?

No excuse. A life sentence seems a tad steep, but I have no doubt they belong in jail.

mr.arrison wrote:I used to teach in an inner city school, and it was rare as shit to find a kid who didn't have complete shit for lunch . . .

If there ever was a parent that was concerned enough to try and raise their kid vegan (or even vegetarian) I found it to be awesome and laudable.

as a (non-vegetarian) parent and former teacher I agree. while it's fucking retarded to expect your kid to survive completely off rice milk and apple juice, people can live and grow eating almost any damn thing, provided there's a little variety and nutrition in there. even the kids who show up for school with a mountain dew code red, some "lunchables", and a jumbo butterfinger get taller, although they can't pay attention for shit. for a parent to show a little interest in what the kid is putting into their body is part of the job. the kids whose parents gave them anything that wasn't pre-packaged: ham sandwiches on white bread, tortillas and cold steak, pb&j, tofu dogs, apples, etc tended to be able to make more of the situation of being in school. the food itself isn't even half the issue, it was more of an indicator of the parents' level of attentiveness, but I can't count the number of hyper-ass dorito-fed punks who were put on ADD meds and/or pulled out for "exceptional" programs (ie special-ed, extra tutoring).

my own feelings about vegetarianism and veganism are mixed. I think that in terms of wanting diet that is healthier, nicer to animals, and of lower environmental impact both are respectable philosophies but I don't think most vegetarians/vegans live up to these ideas in practice. I also think that veganism/vegetarianism is something of a luxury . . . I don't think I've ever known a poor (not slumming) one or one from a poorer country that wasn't India.

Vegetarian, sure. Vegan, no.

Can anyone think of a culture that developed veganism before the modern era? I can't.

India.

Antero wrote:Vegetarian, sure. Vegan, no.

Can anyone think of a culture that developed veganism before the modern era? I can't.

Skronk wrote:India

Are you thinking of Hinduism here? Because it's not really vegan. Only when fasting. They just don't eat cows. They also believe in the caste system.

I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans. Veganism I find slightly strange, just because it must be a hassle to eat. I really love eating meat. I think raising kids as vegans is silly, bordering on irresponsible.

A wise man once said, "If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?"

Nico Adie wrote:I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans. Veganism I find slightly strange, just because it must be a hassle to eat. I really love eating meat. I think raising kids as vegans is silly, bordering on irresponsible.

A wise man once said, "If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?"

It's not a hassle at all. First I took out all the shit, like processed foods, junk. Then I took out meat and dairy. I've always cooked for myself, so it's not a big change.

Does the wise man advise in eating humans, too? We have a lot of meat, too.

Nico Adie wrote:

Antero wrote:Vegetarian, sure. Vegan, no.

Can anyone think of a culture that developed veganism before the modern era? I can't.

Skronk wrote:India

Are you thinking of Hinduism here? Because it's not really vegan. Only when fasting. They just don't eat cows. They also believe in the caste system.

Krishnas are vegan. And there are also the Jains, whose doctrine about not killing any living thing is so extreme, they sweep the ground in front of them so as not to step on anything while walking.

Skronk wrote:

Nico Adie wrote:I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans. Veganism I find slightly strange, just because it must be a hassle to eat. I really love eating meat. I think raising kids as vegans is silly, bordering on irresponsible.

A wise man once said, "If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?"

It's not a hassle at all. First I took out all the shit, like processed foods, junk. Then I took out meat and dairy. I've always cooked for myself, so it's not a big change.

Does the wise man advise in eating humans, too? We have a lot of meat, too.

By "hassle", I mean an inconvenience.

Say, hypothetically, we're out for some drinks. Alcoholic drinks. Firstly, you need to make sure that your drink is vegan, or indeed if the place sells any vegan drinks. Hassle A.

During drinks, we think "I could go a snack!". You need to make sure that the place sells vegan snacks. Chances are, where I live anyway, they won't. Hassle B.

After a few drinks (lets say 8 pints! Why not?), we think "Motherfucker, I'm really hungry now." We go to a pizza place (or any fast food establishment whose opening ours are designed to cater for the post-pub food assault). I buy a pizza, while you ask the staff if they have anything that doesn't contain any animal products of any kind. Hassle C.

Maybe you don't drink and I've just wasted my time.

Nico Adie wrote:By "hassle", I mean an inconvenience.

Say, hypothetically, we're out for some drinks. Alcoholic drinks. Firstly, you need to make sure that your drink is vegan, or indeed if the place sells any vegan drinks. Hassle A.

During drinks, we think "I could go a snack!". You need to make sure that the place sells vegan snacks. Chances are, where I live anyway, they won't. Hassle B.

After a few drinks (lets say 8 pints! Why not?), we think "Motherfucker, I'm really hungry now." We go to a pizza place (or any fast food establishment whose opening ours are designed to cater for the post-pub food assault). I buy a pizza, while you ask the staff if they have anything that doesn't contain any animal products of any kind. Hassle C.

Maybe you don't drink and I've just wasted my time.

Yeah, I don't drink, but I wouldn't have that much of a problem if I'm out with someone. Most drinks are vegan, except for some wines, they clarify it with Isinglass, fish bladder. If I do drink, it's going to be beer, most major beers are vegan. If by chance, they don't have anything vegan, I'll wait until I get home to eat. I've been in that situation before, and it's not too bad.

PEPPER! wrote:my own feelings about vegetarianism and veganism are mixed. I think that in terms of wanting diet that is healthier, nicer to animals, and of lower environmental impact both are respectable philosophies but I don't think most vegetarians/vegans live up to these ideas in practice. I also think that veganism/vegetarianism is something of a luxury . . . I don't think I've ever known a poor (not slumming) one or one from a poorer country that wasn't India.

The Vegetarian=luxury thing really bothers me. I accept that nearly everyone is a happy omnivore if they can be, but this argument of dismissing first world vegetarianism as the luxury in the face of vast over consumption of meat that cannot be sustained is more than a little irritating.

I am a 5 year vegetarian, who is planing to return to being an occasional omnivore because my plans have not worked out, so I hope I read as non evangelical. I always loved meat, and only abstained because I was so far removed from a gathering process. I was way not sure if I would eat the large quantities of meat I was eating if I had to pull the triggger or pull the knife myself to get it.

The good that has come of this for me is that I have the greater respect for my food that I was hoping for, and my interest had provided an education that I was not expecting. Meat 3 times a day, 7 days a week as the bulk of a meal is the real luxury, and everyone is paying a price for that.

Lastly, dismissing veggie burgers is pretty stupid. We all know it is not a hamburger. It is a god damn form factor. They taste fine, and it is convenient to eat things on a bun.