I'm a member of PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals.

Whatever people want to do in regards to what they eat is fine with me, as long as they don't get all evangelical about it. A lot of my closest friends are vegetarians, one or two are vegans, and we don't give each other a bunch of shit about what each other eats. We get along just fine.

I have started to eat a lot of vegetarian Indian food lately, especially saag paneer and some rice dishes. There are quite a few tasty Indian dishes involves meat though, especially goat and chicken. Fish too.

The veggie burger thing was not a response to Pepper!, but to an earlier post within this thread.

what about vampire parenting? is that ok?

Marsupialized wrote:what about vampire parenting? is that ok?

It involves consuming animal products, so yes.

But, then again, it involves unorthodox bedtimes for the kids, so no.

Vegan parenting is an exceptionally bad idea. The quantity and quality of protien required for optimal development is difficult to obtain in that manner, especially without ingesting 3000 + calories. For adults, the merits are debatable at best.

Through the development of all societies, the gating factor in social structure, group size and division of labor has been animal fat. The low grade fats in vegetables just don't cut it....never have.

The only societies to embrace vegetarianism have existed in extremely benign climates, such as the Indus Valley, and within those socities only certain sectors or Castes have the luxury of being fed such a diet. The Brahman (sp?) or priestly Caste, for instance, were vegetarian, while the "untouchables" ate whatever protien they could come across. To equate that division of diets with a social model the western world can live with is ridiculous and offensive.

I grew up in rural North Dakota. I have slaughtered many animals, collected many eggs (never got the hang of milking...but it was never much of an issue), and ended up eating many animals I had named and cared for. such is life. The fact that we are able to make a choice of diets speaks to a great deal of luxury.

Well, I admit I haven't read this thread, but I thought I'd chime in since I was raised vegetarian from day 1 (not counting breast milk).

There is very good evidence that the eating habits you develop as a child translate to the habits you'll have as an adult. As kids, we were not allowed to eat any sugar, preservatives, etc...all natural foods and now my diet is largely the same, with a few exceptions. The argument that a vegetarian or vegan diet does not have sufficient protein is a load of BS in my opinion. I wasn't raised vegan. We at some dairy and very occasionally fish (like once a month at most), however, during the summer time we ate pretty much right out of the garden and during the winter it was a lot of canned/frozen stuff from the garden as well. We never had tofu or seitan or any of that crap. Just fruits, vegetables, nuts and whole grains with some dairy, but really not enough to consider it a protein supplement. Maybe this bit of dairy made a difference, I don't know, but my siblings and I have always been very healthy. I'm the tallest person in my family at 6'2" so I definitely grew OK, albeit I was a late bloomer cause I didn't have a bunch of fucked up hormones in my body. And now, I'm probably in better shape and sick less often than almost any of my friends, not to toot my own horn or anything.

The downside to raising a kid vegetarian is the torment they will undergo at the hands of their peers. This is not insignificant, but at the same time vegetarianism is a lot more common now then when I was growing up. I've maintained the same basic diet, with the addition of poultry and I do eat tofu and stuff like that. Eating meat was never a moral dilemma for me as my parents were veg for mostly health reasons. Hell, I used to catch, clean and eat fish with my dad. I still don't eat pork or beef, but mostly just because I think they are gross. I also don't have the cravings for junk food like a lot of people I know. I do eat some crap, don't get me wrong, but I keep it to a minimum. I attribute this to the eating habits I learned early on. I have tried beef and pork, by the way, and they never made me sick even though I had never had any such meat until I was 20 or something like that.

Anyway, not sure what my point was, but there you have it... a healthy, vegetarian-raised child case study.

Johnny 13 wrote:The Vegetarian=luxury thing really bothers me. I accept that nearly everyone is a happy omnivore if they can be, but this argument of dismissing first world vegetarianism as the luxury in the face of vast over consumption of meat that cannot be sustained is more than a little irritating.

Hi Johnny -

the reasoning behind my belief that vegetarianism and veganism are luxuries is that people can be healthy on far less in terms of nutritional supplements and processed foods if they eat a little meat. I arrived at this notion after being a vegetarian for several years and from conversations with people from far poorer countries about food. I agree with you that the choice to eat meat at every meal has a greater cost to society.

Adam CR wrote:

mr.arrison wrote:As a side note: I don't know why non-vegetarians always feel threatened by vegetarians and vegans.

Because it represents the possibility of individual political action, and conscious self-denial for the sake of the betterment of others (animals in this case). This is not a concept that many are comfortable with.

haha yes it's very brave to not eat a hamburger very brave

Johnny 13 wrote:The veggie burger thing was not a response to Pepper!, but to an earlier post within this thread.

This post.

John George Peppers wrote:I happen to like both Salads and tofu too. However, i'm not going to convince myself it should be in Burger form.
............It would be like a meat eater asking for a Hamburger Salad with extra meat and no salad.

Johnny 13 wrote:Lastly, dismissing veggie burgers is pretty stupid. We all know it is not a hamburger.

Good for you. You realize it's not a hamburger. So now you can stop acting like a child and eat those same contents in a more natural form. Isn't that what your cause is about, natural healthy foods. Im sure it would be much healthier for you to eat the same contents not pressed into a fake looking burger.

Johnny 13 wrote:It is a god damn form factor. They taste fine, and it is convenient to eat things on a bun.

It's also convenient to eat things out of a bowl with a fork. Like a salad with tofu and whatever else you like. It's more natural too.

I you really want a burger why don't you have one. If you want veggies just have a fucking salad. Stop insulting everyone with this business of a Vegetable Hamburger. It's this kind of Hubris which makes all of you vegetarians look like ridiculous assholes.

John George Peppers wrote:I you really want a burger why don't you have one. If you want veggies just have a fucking salad. Stop insulting everyone with this business of a Vegetable Hamburger. It's this kind of Hubris which makes all of you vegetarians look like ridiculous assholes.

What's with this stupid shit about the shape of food, John? Grow the fuck up. It's this mindless indignation that ruins the argument for eating meat. Do yourself a favor, and quit while you're ahead.