Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:31 am
sorry it didn't work. try again.fiery jack wrote:I'm summoning up all my chi and focussing it on turning off your computer.
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Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:11 am
What I mean by "not scientifically explainable" is more "okay seriously I have no idea why this fucking works" - logically speaking, everything can be explained in a scientific fashion but it might require science we haven't described yet. Acupuncture is a good example of such, as (beyond the simple fact that it seems to work on people) it's been experimentally proven to have greater success that a placebo needle treatment. At this point we're left with something that works without any explanation of how.newberry wrote:Harder to say, since some things associated with it are clearly explicable scientifically and some aren't.
Could you provide an example of something associated with Chi that is not scientifically explainable? Could it be that some well trained, disciplined humans are capable of extraordinary physical prowess because of natural abilities alone?
One the explainable end, many ki-related feats translate rather simply into physical language. A number of uses of ki can be described in terms of kinetic energy or intertia simply by substituting the word, one of the central points for ki corresponds pretty much dead on with the center of gravity of a person in the proper stance to exploit it, etc.
And, of course, it's definitely the case that trained, disciplined individuals are capable of incredible feats, though the intentionality and discipline are definitely more important than physical prowess. The human body has quite a bit of untapped potential. A recent test (by National Geographic) found that a champion muay thai fighter was throwing knee kicks that had about the same amount of impact as a 35 mph car crash, and that's not a matter of superhuman abilities (though he's hardly out of shape) - it's about shifting body mass and precise alignment.
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:49 pm
bassdriver wrote:newberry wrote:Matter and energy can be shown scientifically to exist. Can chi? If not, why not?
there's no proof for psyche/spirit/soul or consciousness either. but saying that they don't exist would be....erm...funny?
I haven't said that Chi doesn't exist (I strive to keep an open mind, and will gladly look at any evidence). I don't believe in a supernatural "soul" -- is that funny? If Chi is a specific type of energy, why can't it be measured? Is Chi more like energy, or is it something supernatural like the soul? How do you know Chi energy exists?
newberry wrote:Could you please provide an example of a specific ailment that Chinese medicine undoubtedly can cure/treat?
so millions of people who get better due to TCM are just mistaken?
You're jumping ahead here. Could you provide the example? And are there controlled, double blind studies that show the Chinese treatment was really efficacious? I have no doubt that millions of people believe that Chinese medicine works. Maybe it does really work. If so, clinical trials should demonstrate that.
If you have a headache, and I give you a pill for it, and 20 minutes later the headache goes away--does that prove that the pill cures headaches? No, because it could be the placebo effect, or the headache could have ended of its own accord (most symptoms of ailments come and go without any treatment, so bogus cures often seem to be working).
I have not stated that Chi isn't real, or that Chinese medicine doesn't work, by the way.
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:58 pm
What I mean by "not scientifically explainable" is more "okay seriously I have no idea why this fucking works" - logically speaking, everything can be explained in a scientific fashion but it might require science we haven't described yet.
If you have no idea why it works, how do you know it's Chi? There are a great many things that science hasn't yet understood, and maybe never will. If there is a lack of evidence about something, you can make stuff up, but that doesn't make it true. It used to be thought that ill people were possessed by demons. Then we learned about germs and bacteria and viruses.
Why is it that science can't measure Chi (correct me if I'm wrong), but non-scientists "know" it exists? How does anyone know Chi exists?
And, of course, it's definitely the case that trained, disciplined individuals are capable of incredible feats, though the intentionality and discipline are definitely more important than physical prowess. The human body has quite a bit of untapped potential. A recent test (by National Geographic) found that a champion muay thai fighter was throwing knee kicks that had about the same amount of impact as a 35 mph car crash, and that's not a matter of superhuman abilities (though he's hardly out of shape) - it's about shifting body mass and precise alignment.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above paragraph. May I ask what makes you believe that Ki exists? And is it natural or supernatural, in your view?
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:59 pm
newberry wrote:.......
waste of time my friend, I think I've fucked bassdriver's computer up Pai Mei-style, it's my guess that we'll never hear from him again
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:12 pm
what about the dude who can start a fire with his hands and shock you with his body.
i'd call him proof.
i'd call him proof.
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:34 pm
that damned fly wrote:what about the dude who can start a fire with his hands and shock you with his body.
i'd call him proof.
If I scoot around in my socks, I can shock you with my body. If I use a match, I can start a fire with my hands.
I don't believe in Qi or Chi or Kee or Qui. I don't believe in thing that are demonstrated with obvious set-piece magic tricks. Phooey. It's for suckers.
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:15 pm
steve wrote:I don't believe in Qi or Chi or Kee or Qui. I don't believe in thing that are demonstrated with obvious set-piece magic tricks. Phooey. It's for suckers.
John C3 wrote:Posting youtube party tricks doesn't help the case here.
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:20 pm
Documentaries (i'm not saying they're totally reliable) have been made exploring the topic with some claiming that qi is an actual energy with healing/strengthening properties that is secreted from somewhere in the abdomen.
I wouldn't disregard it based on a couple of videos...
I wouldn't disregard it based on a couple of videos...
Chi, Ki, Qui - whatever
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:23 pm