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You are confusing the moral philosophy of the religion with the metaphysics behind the religion. If you don’t accept the supernatural aspects then you are left with the morality that stems from it

this one is very tricky. i believe that chritian morality absolutely does not stand up without the methaphysics aspects, although it tries hard to do it, and many great minds in history tried to make christian moral system independent from the religion.
here's is what i consider the defining proof for what i say here:

what would you rather like to happend
a) someone puts a knife inside of a water melon thinking it's a baby
b)someone puts a knife inside of a baby thinking it's a water melon
the christian morality says that the very worst thing on this word is human's bad intention. therefore, it would be better if the baby got killed by accident, than if someone would cut a water melon with the intention of killing a baby.
now, there is absolutely no way to explain why killing a baby is better than cutting a water melon - you may believe that this is better it is cause this is god's will, and god is good, but try find a one logical (not reffering to god, or any other mysterious force/creature/etc) argument for it.

and a question, how many of posters on this forum who consider themselfes as catholics* would actually choose the second option**?.

* and **edit: i first wrote "christians" insdead of "catholics", but i realisedi made a mistake here, protestants are not said to believe the official interpretation of the bible, so they can disagree with the statement "the bad will is the worst thing". catholics have to agree with this, otherwise they have no right to call themselfes "catholics".

I think the problem with Christianity and all religions is when they move from a private belief to a public or political act. People need to realise the secularism and atheism are very different. A secular society means that everyone is free to practice whatever they like, public space is neutral so that we can all get along in a multi-cultural, multi-faith society. Even “people of faithâ€

fiery jack wrote:I only got involved in this because that "Christianity is a mental illness" argument pissed me off, as did the lack of tolerance for other people's viewpoints. For all I care, people can believe in Smashing Pumpkins lyrics, so long as it's not making anyone else's life difficult. Although that would be mentally ill. Oh.

Two interesting points here.

1. People who support Christianity often declare any severe criticism of their religion - however thoughtful, intelligent and logical it may be - as representative of a lack of tolerance. This goes back to this thing about being expected to "respect" this anachronistic belief system. Why anyone should tolerate utter stupidity is beyond me, but there you go.

2. "...so long as it's not making anyone else's life difficult." This is another generic default argument Christians and their sympathisers use. Sure, one guy going to church every Sunday doesn't directly harm anybody. But by supporting this established lunacy, you support and strengthen the notion that it's okay to by-pass logic and reason, and to believe in something for which there is no proof. This ultimately leads to crazed dudes bombing cities. Sure, I'm not explaining it too well, but that's about the size of it.

I think calling Christianity a mental illness is fair, because I think these people need help. It's certainly a more charitable view than thinking they're a bunch of selfish fuckwits, which is what my instinct implores me to do.

run joe, run wrote: Sure, I'm not explaining it too well, but that's about the size of it.

I think calling Christianity a mental illness is fair, because I think these people need help. It's certainly a more charitable view than thinking they're a bunch of selfish fuckwits, which is what my instinct implores me to do.

You are totally right.

I suggest anyone that wants a good book on the subject to read on this:

Sam Harris

Amazon US

Amazon Uk

like this, without the spaces after and before the "[" and "]"

[ url=http://www.blahblah.com ]clickhere[ /url ]

emmanuelle cunt wrote:like this, without the spaces after and before the "[" and "]"

[ url=http://www.blahblah.com ]clickhere[ /url ]

Cheers!

See also: http://www.electrical.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 1&highligh

and here, and fuck's sake here.

http://www.electrical.com/phpBB2/viewto ... ght=search

and here

I'll get my coat.