Rick Reuben wrote:See this movie? Based on a true story. Guy was homeless, later he wasn't. Does it offend the liberals that Hollywood put out a movie that revealed the amazing hidden secret that homelessness isn't permanent, and that personal responsibility helps to overcome it?

Maybe this true story has no validity in the eyes of the liberals either. If the Government didn't lift a person out of homelessness, then it didn't happen!

I consider myself liberal and I am not offended by that movie in the least.

Why are you always yelling at and slandering people for things they have not said?

Rick Reuben wrote:See this movie? Based on a true story. Guy was homeless, later he wasn't. Does it offend the liberals that Hollywood put out a movie that revealed the amazing hidden secret that homelessness isn't permanent, and that personal responsibility helps to overcome it?

Does it offend a libertarians and free market capitalists that such an example is so rare, startling and remarkable that a feature film is made to celebrate it? Does this not prove that doing such a thing (for real, not pretend) is awesome rather than ordinary? That it requires extraordinary good fortune and a movie-magical confluence of events including the timely cooperation of other people -- what you would recognize as a society?

And besides, it's a movie. That's make believe too.

Rick Reuben wrote:See this movie? Based on a true story. Guy was homeless, later he wasn't. Does it offend the liberals that Hollywood put out a movie that revealed the amazing hidden secret that homelessness isn't permanent, and that personal responsibility helps to overcome it?

Maybe this true story has no validity in the eyes of the liberals either. If the Government didn't lift a person out of homelessness, then it didn't happen!

That movie is about Chris Gardner, I used to work with him. He was up in the offices at Bear Stearns and one of the brokers I worked for did his business through them, so I met him a bunch of times.
Almost nothing in that movie is true and he's one of the biggest pricks you'll ever meet.
The whole premise of the movie, where he is working as an unpaid intern, trying to get ahead? It's bullshit, didn't happen, he was getting paid a little above minimum wage that whole time like every other person just starting down there.
It's not a lot of money but I managed when that's all I was making down there.
Basically in real life he worked himself up from minimum wage into being rich not from being homeless to being rich.

Marsupialized wrote:

Rick Reuben wrote:See this movie? Based on a true story. Guy was homeless, later he wasn't. Does it offend the liberals that Hollywood put out a movie that revealed the amazing hidden secret that homelessness isn't permanent, and that personal responsibility helps to overcome it?

Maybe this true story has no validity in the eyes of the liberals either. If the Government didn't lift a person out of homelessness, then it didn't happen!

That movie is about Chris Gardner, I used to work with him. He was up in the offices at Bear Stearns and one of the brokers I worked for did his business through them, so I met him a bunch of times.
Almost nothing in that movie is true and he's one of the biggest pricks you'll ever meet.
The whole premise of the movie, where he is working as an unpaid intern, trying to get ahead? It's bullshit, didn't happen, he was getting paid a little above minimum wage that whole time like every other person just starting down there.
It's not a lot of money but I managed when that's all I was making down there.
Basically in real life he worked himself up from minimum wage into being rich not from being homeless to being rich.

BWAHAHA. Your awesomely retarded example couldn't even hold water. I trust you, Marsupialized. Rick will certainly ask for internet proof, though.

Also. Regarding Katrina: Jim Cantore was in Gulf Shores, AL the morning before the storm hit. That dude being in your city is a death sentence. I must have been completely nuts to not feel safe until the early morning just before the storm hit land. Before you go on about how I am changing my facts I will clarify that I lived in Perdido Key, FL. Gulf Shores was ten minutes from my house and Pensacola was about twenty-five. My mail had Pensacola written on it, though. Why did I type all that out? Christ, you are impossible.

Let me hear what you think, people who think that only the government can lift a person out of homelessness, and who think that the choices made by the homeless themselves are off the table for scrutiny.

Another in an endless litany of straw men and red herrings.

No one has said such a thing.

Rick Reuben wrote:

bigc wrote: a thing.

You refuse to estimate the chances of someone else escaping homelessness by taking the same path as Shepard?

Coward.

It is possible. It is unlikely.

Refusing to answer that question is not cowardly in the least. Hiding behind fallacy, innuendo and poor logic is cowardly.

Rick Reuben wrote:

syntaxfree07 wrote: I must have been completely nuts

Huh?? Who? What? How much coke did you snort before you jibbered that shit out?

Apology accepted.

Rick Reuben wrote:What are the odds that any homeless person, beginning exactly from where Shepard began, ends up exactly where Shepard did if he followed the same plan of action?

Beginning exactly from where Shepard began? With his exact same background, education, life experience, social skills?

(I'm assuming you're continuing to discount the actuality of his pretend-they-don't-exist family, thus discounting the fact that he knew he wasn't really homeless, but whatever.)

I'd say this homeless person's odds are pretty good. Unfortunately, this homeless person does not exist.

According to the National Coalition for the Homeless, only 35% are white, and half are male. Based on race and gender alone, Adam Shepard is in a 17.5% slice. Throw in his B.A., his lifetime spent comfortably above the poverty line, and his lack of disease, disability, mental illness and addiction, and now we're talking about such a small slice that it's practically insignificant.

If you can find a source that shows an abundance of homeless people of the exactly-like-Adam-Shepard variety, I'd be glad to see it.

Rick Reuben wrote:

bigc wrote:unlikely

Unlikely?? As in: a person who tried to get a job at a day labor agency would fail more often than not? Okay, if that's your answer, but it's ridiculous.

No, that's not my answer. My answer is above.

Again, you are proving yourself totally incapable of discussing anything wihtout committing the straw man fallacy.

My answer is that it is unlikely that another homeless person following the same steps would have the same result, because the other homeless person would likely not be white, educated, drug free and with his/her full mental faculties.

The essence of your point is, again, fallacious and circular.

'If another homeless man got a job and was successful like Shepard, wouldn't he have a job and be successful?'

[code]

Rick Reuben wrote:Let's have a little test.

What are the odds that any homeless person, beginning exactly from where Shepard began, ends up exactly where Shepard did if he followed the same plan of action?

I say about 90%.

Let me hear what you think, people who think that only the government can lift a person out of homelessness, and who think that the choices made by the homeless themselves are off the table for scrutiny.

I'll bite. If you're white, college educated, sober, young, mentally stable, and come from a middle-class background I'd say the odds are really good that you pull yourself up by the ol' bootstraps. 90%? Sure, why not. Bravo. Again, if I lost my all of my money and possesions, just like similar people with my background, I'd be back on my feet pretty quickly. Your naivety is striking. I'm glad that Shepard clawed his way back to his parent's house. Ya know, with his mom turning HIS bedroom into her arts and craft room and all. WTF, it's like he was homeless twice.

The more I think about what this guy did, the more pissed off I become. He used 10 months worth of social services money and resources to prove he could. How many months did he live off of the welfare state? Screw this kid. Because of his grand experiment someone else had to sleep on the streets those nights.

Just to clarify, I'm pro global government, I think the state is best equiped to deal with education and medicine. I also think the welfare state is pretty good and government should be bigger and better. I also think that a prick like Adam Shepard should have to pay the state of South Carolina back for his room and board.

Also, I usually give money to panhandlers. I think it's a good idea.