MrFood wrote:

Skronk wrote:Ready to answer my questions?

Done. Now are you gonna answer mine? There are quite a few up there...

How 'bout mine? I only asked one and I'd REALLY like you to answer it.

This culture of violence is definitely created by society, and furthered by the only outlet we have anymore for culture, the television. But it's also very warped. The media creates, distorts, and outright lies to us. Look at Waco, or 9/11 for instance. (Sorry, Bob, I know it's more your area)

I answered all your previous posts, Mr. Food. I think we can agree that the Right-To-Arm-Bears is of the utmost importance.

america need guns, and I don't know if other countries are like us in this respect, because we have prey animal populations (i.e. deer) that have no more natural predators to keep them in a state of equilibrium (i.e. we kill cougars or bobcats or whatever predators would eat our children). maybe it could be done by federal hunters, instead of the way it is now, by hunter-type hunters. rifles are great for making deer into food, or jerky or whatever, rather than having a zillion of them getting smashed up on the interstate by families in cars. guns are useful, very much, in that regard. you could say that hunters are only allowed to use a bow, which would be badass. but people might not bite.

the bill of rights only protects the right to have a gun as part of a milita, right?

as long as there is a criminal underground (i.e. always, everywhere) the bad guy can get his gun. nobody's gonna stop that, short of taking down the power system that's heavily intertwined, cops, mob, gangs, industry, etc.

guns kill a tiny fraction of the number of people who eating bad food kills, in the US anyway. more people die from heart disease each day in virginia than died because of this uncommon shooting spree thing. there are way bigger fish to fry than the "gun problem", like our culture problem, diet problem, government problem, education problem, etc.

scott wrote:the bill of rights only protects the right to have a gun as part of a milita, right?

Not to my understanding. The second amendment protects the right to bear arms so that a well-armed militia can be raised. The framers chose their wording because they had lived through a time when a militia had to be raised to overthrow a monarchy. They wrote the bill of rights to put that right in the people's tool chests, should that need ever return. The right to bear arms exists to enable a militia, the militia does not enable the right to bear arms. Here's an analogy: you don't lose your right to drive if you choose not to own a car. You do not lose your right to a gun if there is no membership in a militia.

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.)

"The great object is that every man be armed . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution.)

"The advantage of being armed . . . the Americans possess over the people of all other nations . . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several Kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in his Federalist Paper No. 46.)

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." (Second Amendment to the Constitution.)

Not enough people read the damn Bill Of Rights, and too many are willing to accept complacency, and the erasing of our rights. I think a lot of it has to do with paranoia, on both sides. The pro-gun people might be too hasty to use them, while the anti-gun ones are too frightened by the negativity surrounding it. There is a happy medium.

Skronk wrote:Not enough people read the damn Bill Of Rights, and too many are willing to accept complacency, and the erasing of our rights.

Now you're getting down to it. It is very easy to exploit a tragedy like today for political capital, to turn it into a battering ram against the Second Amendment. Why? Because it's shocking. Now flip it around. Can you take a day without a 33 fatality massacre and turn it into political capital that lets you protect the Second Amendment?? Not so easy, is it? What are you going to say: "Look America- a day without a massacre! Proof that our gun laws are proper." But, try the inverse: "Look America- 33 dead! We must change the gun laws!" There are more days without massacres than days with, but only the aberrant days have substantial political currency.

There are more days unlike 9/11 than like 9/11, but only 9/11 is a day that turns our policy like a wrench. The days when terrorism didn't invade our lives don't add up to a hill of beans in our memory banks when a 9/11 happens- it's like history ceases on 9/10, then begins anew on 9/12- that's what you always hear: "the post-9/11 world". The big picture view is shredded, and like you say Skronk, paranoia takes over- and who knows better how to exploit paranoia and fear than those for whom fear and paranoia are like blood, the vampires of the military and the security state?

That's the best post I've ever read on from you, my good man. You're on the (fiat) money!

p.s. I'd make it my signature, but it's too long.

Hey Skronk, can you chill out on the "Brits are sissies" stuff? The Mr. Bean, Fish and Chips bullshit is weak. Armed or not, I dare you to spend 5 minutes in not even the worst parts of Birmingham.

As for this "we need guns stuff," I can compare it to one of the many other things we keep flogging that's not working. Iraq for example. The current plan isn't working, but if we change strategy it will all fall apart, right? As if it hasn't already?

The gun thing is out of hand. There is no reason to own and assault weapon or handgun. They are made to kill people - that's it. Target shooting is pretending to kill people.
You want to defend yourself? Go buy a hunting rifle or a shotgun. I'm sure it will deter. I just can't imagine a day when you'll be in that situation where being able to sqeeze off 50 hollow point rounds will save the day. You'll get one chance to scare the piss out of a burgler...maybe...probably not.
You can do that will a bird gun.
I own four myself. If someone breaks into my house, my guess is that I'd be better off clobbering the fucker over the head with one of them, but just pointing it at someone would probably make them shit their pants.

Also, get a dog. Stats show that it's the number one reason why a burgler will chose your neighbor's place over yours, not the notion that you might have a gun, which will do you no good if you don't wake up.

I am for massive, massive restrictions

I have no problem with hunting. I think it's necessary, actually, for the reasons Scott has detailed. My area has real deer population problems brought on by humans, and they are in danger of starving and suffering. We chose to be their keepers the day we screwed up their habitat.

You don't hunt deer with a .45 or an AR-15, however, and I think the best thing we can do is stop distributing them legally, because they get into the hands of the wrong people through various means inevitably.
That's how it happens.
The current system has failed yet we won't change because we never change. That drug war is really kicking ass, isn't it? Haven't changed that much since we "declared war."
Wow, so many successes there!

And I don't buy the notion that the fact that more people die from heart attacks than gunshots says anything at all. Aside from how society has to pick up the tab, if someone wants to be a fatass heart patient and die young, that's up to them. Nobody at VA. Tech had any choice about getting gunned down today, on the other hand. Diet, exercise and ambition couldn't have prevented that.

-A

I wouldn't feel safe leaving the hut without my crossbow and battle mace.