Here's the Boombats bottom line:
There's nothing we can do.
There's nothing we need to do.
Things like this happen. There are so many (too many?) people in this country, so varied and undefinable. Regardless of what systems we create, the human organism will grow around it like tree roots twixt flagstones.
We can't prevent the past. Even if the Virginia school shooter were still alive, no form of punishment short of the blackest of magicks could bring his victims back.
Just as much as we are a nation obsessed with violence, we are also a nation obsessed with retribution. Our system of crime and punishment is a self-sustaining cycle, an "shitty island" to quote another thread.
But punishment is almost pointless, not counting its potential ability to dissuade future crimes. Even that power is a vast "if," as the events of this morning have demonstrated. As a solution to an irreversible problem, it is useless. The only thing punishment serves is vengefulness and bloodlust. We feel impotent if we are not able to see the heads of those who wrong us put on a stake, and for that urge I believe we share the tresspasser's guilt.
But you know what? It's okay!
Tomorrow most of us will wake up, eat breakfast, and not be murdered! That's the way it is for the living. The important thing is to live well and appreciate every moment, and share our appreciation with each other. We can lend our comfort to those who have lost, because we have kept our lives for now. We are all on borrowed time, anyway.
Peace
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
43blackmarket wrote:Andrew L. wrote:The people who want to suggest, at every mass shooting and/or gun death, that it's a matter of a lone "psychopathic killer" and in no way related to society and culture, are, in spite of themselves, begging the question: so why does the US produce so many lone psychopathic killers?
I don't think you will find anyone here who supports a right a bear arms deny the root of some of our gun issues directly relates to our culture, to the "glorification" of the gun.
Not true. On this thread, Lemuel implies that this shooting got out of hand because there *weren't enough* guns on the scene. The logic is that more concealed weapons equals 'a fighting chance' for everyone, or whatever. Typical NRA-type argument (which valorizes handgun ownership).
Fact is, states with higher gun-ownership rates have higher homicide rates. Neighborhoods and demographics with higher handgun ownership have higher homicide rates.
Typical right-wing argument, though. People use guns to kill? That's only because not enough people have guns! Capitalism produces poverty? That's only because there's not enough capitalism!
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
44alex maiolo wrote:Hey Skronk, can you chill out on the "Brits are sissies" stuff? The Mr. Bean, Fish and Chips bullshit is weak. Armed or not, I dare you to spend 5 minutes in not even the worst parts of Birmingham.
I was joking about that. I don't take kindly when Americans are looked at as dumb hillbillies, or ignorant cowboys, so I was just venting.
alex maiolo wrote:As for this "we need guns stuff," I can compare it to one of the many other things we keep flogging that's not working. Iraq for example. The current plan isn't working, but if we change strategy it will all fall apart, right? As if it hasn't already?
There's no way you can compare an illegal, immoral war to the right to bear arms. It's silly. We've had the right to bear arms since the founding of this country, and it hasn't really been encroached upon until the late 20th century. The negative light that has been shed on gun-ownership is because of manipulation by the media. Look at Ruby Ridge. People have to realize that there's a vast difference between responsible gun-ownership and complete lawlessness that gangs and criminals are engaged in.
alex maiolo wrote:The gun thing is out of hand. There is no reason to own and assault weapon or handgun. They are made to kill people - that's it. Target shooting is pretending to kill people.
You want to defend yourself? Go buy a hunting rifle or a shotgun. I'm sure it will deter. I just can't imagine a day when you'll be in that situation where being able to sqeeze off 50 hollow point rounds will save the day. You'll get one chance to scare the piss out of a burgler...maybe...probably not.
I agree that assault rifles are excessive, but I would still want the right to own one, if I felt it was necessary. Handguns, are what I'm talking about when I talk about gun ownership.
alex maiolo wrote:Also, get a dog. Stats show that it's the number one reason why a burgler will chose your neighbor's place over yours, not the notion that you might have a gun, which will do you no good if you don't wake up.
I have two dogs. One would stare blankly at an intruder, and the other would run and hide. Bless their little canine hearts.
alex maiolo wrote:I am for massive, massive restrictions
I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't why you would be for telling people how to live, where is it your place?
alex maiolo wrote:I have no problem with hunting. I think it's necessary, actually, for the reasons Scott has detailed. My area has real deer population problems brought on by humans, and they are in danger of starving and suffering. We chose to be their keepers the day we screwed up their habitat.
I'm not one for hunting, personally.
alex maiolo wrote:The current system has failed yet we won't change because we never change. That drug war is really kicking ass, isn't it? Haven't changed that much since we "declared war."
Wow, so many successes there!
No one's arguing the drug war isn't a farce beyond words, but to drag that into the discussion about gun control, is ludicrous.
alex maiolo wrote:And I don't buy the notion that the fact that more people die from heart attacks than gunshots says anything at all. Aside from how society has to pick up the tab, if someone wants to be a fatass heart patient and die young, that's up to them. Nobody at VA. Tech had any choice about getting gunned down today, on the other hand. Diet, exercise and ambition couldn't have prevented that.
That still says nothing about why others would tell me what I can and cannot have, or do. I don't stand on a soapbox telling people to buy weapons and "the end is nigh", so why don't people back off and act like enlightened individuals and let people choose for themselves?
Marsupialized wrote:I want a piano made out of jello.
It's the only way I'll be able to achieve the sound I hear in my head.
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
45clocker bob wrote:
Now you're getting down to it. It is very easy to exploit a tragedy like today for political capital, to turn it into a battering ram against the Second Amendment. Why? Because it's shocking. Now flip it around. Can you take a day without a 33 fatality massacre and turn it into political capital that lets you protect the Second Amendment?? Not so easy, is it? What are you going to say: "Look America- a day without a massacre! Proof that our gun laws are proper." But, try the inverse: "Look America- 33 dead! We must change the gun laws!" There are more days without massacres than days with, but only the aberrant days have substantial political currency.
There are more days unlike 9/11 than like 9/11, but only 9/11 is a day that turns our policy like a wrench. The days when terrorism didn't invade our lives don't add up to a hill of beans in our memory banks when a 9/11 happens- it's like history ceases on 9/10, then begins anew on 9/12- that's what you always hear: "the post-9/11 world". The big picture view is shredded, and like you say Skronk, paranoia takes over- and who knows better how to exploit paranoia and fear than those for whom fear and paranoia are like blood, the vampires of the military and the security state?
Milhouse Van Houten wrote:... But does anybody remember all the days I didn't wet my pants?!?
"That man is a head taller than me.
...That may change."
...That may change."
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
46alex maiolo wrote:I am for massive, massive restrictions
Scrolling down quickly I read this as "massive, massive erections"
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
47Andrew L. wrote:Fact is, states with higher gun-ownership rates have higher homicide rates. Neighborhoods and demographics with higher handgun ownership have higher homicide rates.
What about a city like New York? It has some of the tightest laws on the books, yet homicide is still a major occurrence. Albeit, not what it once was, thank God.
Andrew L. wrote:Typical right-wing argument, though. People use guns to kill? That's only because not enough people have guns! Capitalism produces poverty? That's only because there's not enough capitalism!
There's the obvious stigma that's associated with gun-ownership. This post makes it sound like if you own a gun, you're a gun nut. Typical left-wing argument. That's one of the reasons I don't call myself "liberal" anymore. The "liberals" in this country aren't socially liberal anymore.
Marsupialized wrote:I want a piano made out of jello.
It's the only way I'll be able to achieve the sound I hear in my head.
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
48Any time I see a zombie movie, it makes me consider buying a gun.
Fuck baseball bats and other wimpy zombie killing tools.
(Chainsaws are still cool.)
Fuck baseball bats and other wimpy zombie killing tools.
(Chainsaws are still cool.)
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
49djensen wrote:Any time I see a zombie movie, it makes me consider buying a gun.
Fuck baseball bats and other wimpy zombie killing tools.
(Chainsaws are still cool.)
Hefty short/to/medium lenght swords are also excellent. Katana is #1. Also a really long machete can do the trick. Polearms are good for keeping zombies at bay, although their effectiveness is everely limited indoors.
But nothing beats a shottie.
Gun Control-Right To Bear Arms
50Boombats wrote:djensen wrote:Any time I see a zombie movie, it makes me consider buying a gun.
Fuck baseball bats and other wimpy zombie killing tools.
(Chainsaws are still cool.)
Hefty short/to/medium lenght swords are also excellent. Katana is #1. Also a really long machete can do the trick. Polearms are good for keeping zombies at bay, although their effectiveness is everely limited indoors.
But nothing beats a shottie.
None of those will do fuck-all against robots. Or dolphins with hyper-intelligence and thumbs.