zorg wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:17 am

brownreasontolive wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:53 am When crypto is approaching a point where it accounts for nearly 1% of carbon emissions, I don't think it can be brushed off so easily.

Never one to excel at maths, but I believe the number is “ 0.1%”, and not “1%.”
The One Child Policy was not well recieved, at least in the West, The rite of Carrousel seems like a good option.

Maybe it was .1% a year ago? This is an issue in itself - where is the legit carbon accounting?
I'm having a hard time finding anything that can be properly cited. Depending where you read (articles 2020-now) you'll see 0.1%, 0.3%, 0.9%.
The bulk of information available seems to come from tech and financial journals, which is problematic.

This is already way outdated, but was a good read: https://nrs.harvard.edu/URN-3:HUL.INSTREPOS:37365412

"Under current policy, cryptocurrencies annual carbon footprint by 2028 would
account for approximately 1% of 2018 world’s overall CO2 emissions and associated
high social costs. To maintain positive net benefit for the society, the crypto industry
needs to ensure cryptocurrency price continue rising, faster than energy and social costs
attached to its development. The research results do not suggest that cryptocurrency is
“burning down the planet,” but the negative externalities identified in the research should
be considered. Unlocking blockchain technology potential for the energy sector could be
highly disruptive, considering interesting application in net metering and a transactional
grid, smart contracts, distributed energy resource record keeping, and ownership records,
to name a few (CRS, 2019). This research results suggest that externalities should be
considered by policymakers in order to establish the appropriate guidelines in embracing
blockchain adoption and cryptocurrency’s energy intense processes."

In any case, the energy required to mine bitcoin annually is equal to or greater than that of most European countries.
But then again, the state of California probably consumes double that of Norway. Meanwhile, Lebanon loses power for days at a time in 2021.
Crypto mining may be be head in a greener direction, but only where the technology and clean power are accessible.
~70% of the crypto generated annually is still consuming TW of energy in places where dirty fossil fuels are the choice fuel source.

Anyway, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I'm very interested in the conversation.
I'd really like to learn more, but maybe from the perspective of actual experts rather than techbros and armchair economists/hobbyist investors?

My long-term business partner literally is one of the world's leading experts on this tech. We run a games studio together - and my expertise is in game design, not this - but he got involved with blockchain tech on the side a few years ago, and he's been heavily invested in companies that are doing new things with it. He made the news a while back when he sold a cryptopunk NFT for $12 million and he also owns the world's first NFT, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. He's one of the guys all the big companies have all of a sudden come running to book consultations with.

Now he doesn't have time to be a games programmer any more but is making so much money from his crypto investments he can afford to hire other people and we basically won't ever have to worry about funding again. He loves talking about this stuff but a lot of it is pretty mind-boggling, and he won't spend any time trying to convince internet dude making fedora jokes, he'll just say "that's fine, nice to meet you and goodbye".

It's a crazy reversal of fortune for us, but the world's gone mad so fuck it.

Money is, and has always been fake. Then again. I don’t know how useful it is to invent another fake kind of money.

Well, my friend would say the interesting part is what you can do with things like smart contracts. I don't know half of what he's up to these days TBH, he's under NDA for some things. But they are thinking way beyond new fake money. However, it turns out that new fake money can also be exchanged for old fake money, and stupid amounts of it.

Sideways step into NFT lunacy, but I thought this video was enjoyable and worth sharing.

I was involved in a couple of NFT projects recently that actually are stored directly on the blockchain. The art/animation/music is all generated in javascript and the code itself is written to the blockchain. No external files and you have to keep the code down to a few k so it was quite fun for a change of pace. Maybe they will sell, maybe not, I dunno, it's out of my hands now. If it does I will make some money but either way it was nice to do something that can be wrapped up in a few weeks for a change.

I don't think "the data isn't really on the blockchain" is really anything to get to bothered by though. Any time you "buy" regular digital goods it's just a number on somebody's database. NFTs are closer to real ownership than the regular digital items we have been using, since at least the database is decentralised and you have the right to resell.

Let's take an entirely non-hypothetical example.

Say we're developing a game and it is a free-to-play multiplayer game. And we're most likely going to fund the game with the sale of entirely optional "cosmetics": hats and shit. All the data for all the cosmetics is in every copy of the game already. All you get when you buy your fancy hat is a tick on your account on our server saying you can use the hat. Or more realistically, on Steam's server. And Steam will take a big chunk of the sale price too, thank you. And they will have complete control over your digital purchase forever because it's just a number on their server. We don't control it, you don't control it, Steam controls it. But that's just how digital purchases work at the moment.

But we thought we would try doing something with NFT cosmetics instead. This means that we don't control the database, and nobody can stop you from selling, trading or even destroying your fancy hat (or rather your license to use the fancy hat) if you want to. You purchase isn't tied to Steam or any other platform. This seems to me to be an improvement on the old kind of digital purchase which was really no kind of ownership at all.

It's not relevant to the thread, but to my mind they're both slightly-diffetrnt shades of shit, which is why I'm strictly GOG or physical.

That whole rug-pulling bit was fascinating to me mind. I similtaneously couldn't believe it, whilst also slapping my forehead at the realisation that of course this would happen.

Just another Wild West. Big old scamola and plenty will look away from that as long as they make a few quid on the way. As per the post upthread, it's all fucked anyway. The only decision to make is the moral one.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:06 am It's not relevant to the thread, but to my mind they're both slightly-diffetrnt shades of shit, which is why I'm strictly GOG or physical.

That whole rug-pulling bit was facinating to me mind. I similtaneously couldn't believe it, whilst also slapping my forehead at the realisation that of course this would happen.

Just another Wild West. Big old scamola and plenty will look away from that as long as they make a few quid on the way. As per the post upthread, it's all fucked anyway. The only decision to make is the moral one.

Yeah, steam is awful. Culture as much so or more than business practices, although their business practices are unequivocally shitty. If the blockchain kills steam that’ll be one good thing it’s done .

biscuitdough wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:15 am Yeah, steam is awful. Culture as much so or more than business practices, although their business practices are unequivocally shitty. If the blockchain kills steam that’ll be one good thing it’s done .

It's an odd one. I very nearly went to work for Valve Christ, over a decade ago now, and everything about that setup was excellent, and I'd feel the same for Steam but for its marketplace shenannigans. I do struggle with how one place can hold such disparate cultures, although I guess there's an element of grabbing with the one hand to plough into the good stuff with the other.

Ties in with the origin of this C/NC for me. I've no time for crypto speculation from an environmental standpoint, but given that what's done is done, I'd file building a PRF damn hellass compound under 'good work'.

Edit: I suppose it's worth adding that most of the stuff on my old Steam account can now be dled and played offline, which is as it should be. It's was quite a while back and I can't remember exactly why this wasn't always possible. I guess it was just anti-piracy stuff of the day.