Krev wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:51 am I do think a massive portion of Trump voters were "mah groceries" types that had limited information. With better messaging, the Dems could have courted these people. The saddest thing is any man probably would have beaten Trump in this misogynistic country. My wife said they should have run Walz.

Yup. A vast majority of people think and politics exactly zero times a day. They probably didn’t notice or care about the culture war stuff and just heard Reaganite GOP “strong America = good for you”.

Problem is, like Thatcherism, you can’t do Reaganism twice. Especially after Blair and Clinton just carried on with it.

Most voters aren’t having the conversations we are, ever and they get kind of annoyed when “politics” intrudes into their lives.

emmanuelle cunt wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:21 am

losthighway wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:53 pm Now Trump is saying Ukraine "never should have started that war". Words fail me.

He's reached the point of directly quoting Kremlin's/Putin propaganda which is grim (but totally expected) news.

Current events seem to be from a wicked political comedy/drama:
- Russia talks with US about the Russian-Ukrainian War, talks take place in Saudi Arabia
- the US plan is among other thinks to have European (not NATO) military presence in Ukraine to ensure borders are respected
- however there is no EU or Ukrainian representatives taking part in the talks
- and Russia has already said any kind of western military presence in Ukraine under any badge won't be accepted
- if US current rhetoric is to be trusted NATO is pretty much gone
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So it's fascinating to watch, I just wish it was political fiction. And I definitely wish Russia wasn't so damn close.

Hang in there, man, totally understandable.

Why would the EU be involved? They're not part of the Putin/Trump/Prince Chopper axis of evil.

I know PC sounds like a good dub artist, but he's actually a Saudi asshole.

Krev wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 9:35 am Why would the EU be involved? They're not part of the Putin/Trump/Prince Chopper axis of evil.

I know PC sounds like a good dub artist, but he's actually a Saudi asshole.

The EU’s biggest concern is energy security. They want this to end and get back to normal-ish relations with Russia. Germany especially has been particularly rocked by the war politically. The rise of the AfD isn’t just about the problems caused by accepting nearly a million Syrian refugees, it’s amplified by inflation caused by the war. I know Germans and Germany well enough to know their collective fear of inflation. It’s a national obsession. To the point it has stymied investment in publics services, creating a viscous cycle that really ramped up over the past three years.

Anyhoo. This should be about Ukraine, they’re the ones getting played by everyone, with people dying.

It's Zelenky's fault, all of it.


As for Europe involvement - the military presence in Ukraine to secure borders post-war was Trump's administration idea, but Moscow rejected it. Why would Europe agree to something like that without being asked about it? Yeah.
As to why Europe should be involved in general - outside of energy, for the same reasons it already is involved - helping Ukraine is a relatively convenient way of not allowing Russia (and currently supported-by-Trump-Russia) in gaining military strength significant enough to attack other countries in the region.

So much of Germany thinks electing a hypocritical, anti-LGBT Swiss lesbian who had modeled herself after Trump and Skrewdriver is the answer to their inflation woe? I thought education was better there.

It most definitely is not.
Lots of things here are not what you would expect.

Gramsci wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:52 amThe rise of the AfD isn’t just about the problems caused by accepting nearly a million Syrian refugees

By and large, these "problems" you reference do not exist. What exists is a xenophobic, irrational response to migration/immigration, and it was there all ready to go, even killing people regularly, long before 2015/16.

Gramsci wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:52 am The EU’s biggest concern is energy security. They want this to end and get back to normal-ish relations with Russia.

Interesting take...I don't hear that concern being raised except by the usual unpopular parties (Czechs, Hungarians, German's right wing etc...). To the point where EU instead keep talking about rearming for WWIII (with American weapons, no doubt). In fact the news is all about the Baltics cutting all electrical supply with Russia a week ago.

emmanuelle cunt wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:21 am I definitely wish Russia wasn't so damn close.

This is more what I hear from everybody. And I get it that Ukraine got the shaft here, and they have an absolute right to complain....but why is there this absolute hysteria about a Russian invasion in Europe? I'm old enough to remember the first cold war, and the rhetoric is the same. But based on what exactly? They'd been loudly dicking around about Ukraine since the 80's. I don't know of other such simmering disputes with powers in mainland Europe, other than the ongoing tit-for-tat campaigns to install puppet governments in the usual vassal states, but that is business as usual. I just don't get why a Sweden should be afraid of Russia...besides EU being (now regrettable) friends with the US. That's not to say you should agree with or like the Russians....but doesn't the level of fear seem misplaced and possibly misleading?

For anybody interested I felt this is a fairly even handed summary of what got us here, published before the whole Trump charm offensive.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2025 ... the-making

jimmy spako wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:24 am

Gramsci wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:52 amThe rise of the AfD isn’t just about the problems caused by accepting nearly a million Syrian refugees

By and large, these "problems" you reference do not exist. What exists is a xenophobic, irrational response to migration/immigration, and it was there all ready to go, even killing people regularly, long before 2015/16.

I agree. I’m was referring to perceived problems.

But just browbeating people with concerns about immigration, right or wrong won’t fix the situation. When people are secure in their lives they give less thought to “the other”. The solution to xenophobia at a broad view is better public realm.

Basically I’m saying more economic socialism equals less racism. Or at least people’s prejudices are less easy to manipulate for political gain. The striking thing about parties like Reform and the AfD is their backers. It’s always rightwing business people whose main goal is rightwing economics. Farage and Alice Weidel are useful idiots or in on the game. Weidel’s “idol” is Thatcher ffs.