By unofficial official, I meant it is the default language of the land. I know random words in several languages, took as much Japanese as I could bear, but I only know English well. So while unofficial, English is what you are going to need to speak if you are hoping to interact with me. I am betting all your written records are done in English, and it is the first language you try when answering your phone. Other than not being a dick when you encounter Chinese, how is English not what you assume to here when you interact with someone? How does that assumption really differ from from the definition of an official tongue?
I am not saying to punish anyone for not speaking English, and I don't care about the damn song. I think it would be better if it were not an issue, especially because drawing attention to the fact that we don't have an official language is a good way to have it made into law. I doubt making an official language would mean much more to most than knowing our state snack is popcorn, or that our state bird is the cardinal, but still.
Wow is this racist?
52agent202 wrote:"official language", why not an official way to think!!, this is a first step for an official culture.....what's going one!!, here in france our govenement's started to do same shit with nord african immigrate, in the 60's government bring then back because they need workers, now they trie to remove them just because they do not born in france, they don't matter if they work there since
10 or 20 years, if they have childrens born in france or not, they just said 'hey look at your paper, you'r not french, go home", some of this peoples are waiting for a régularisation since a very long time, they pay taxes in france, have family, work hard for the country ...and then they trie to move then, and they fucking do....so our new national sport is to burning cars!!!
Until five years in france we can see our governement's working hard to make it more libéralism, in france by the past we have some real socials laws
who started to be deleted by this governement, step by step, france is going to be a ultralibéralism country as the usa...when i here some of this stupids officials thinks it makes me think about the situation in china.
whe must be very carful about that!!!!!!
Sorry, I just thought this post was a little ironic.
Salut Agent202!
tmidgett wrote:
Steve is right.
Anyone who disagrees is wrong.
I'm not being sarcastic. I'm serious.
Wow is this racist?
53floog wrote:
Disappointed at some of the true colours being shown here. Learn a language for the joy of communication, ex-bank teller. Reconsider the growl of ignorance in favour of the smile of recognition. If you take the time to learn, you may even reciprocate the idea of taking on another language, rather than hiding out in a linguistic foxhole.
The above is a good point and wise counsel. There is, generally speaking, too little enthusiasm in North America for learning language.
But why is it "disappointing" or rightist or even illiberal to observe the above advice is equally wise and applicable to ex-bank tellers AND to immigrants?
Is it because there is a presumption that learning a language requires resources unavailable to immigrants?
Watch Telemundo or Univision TV if you believe that of the Mexican immingrants. There will be a commercial in the first fifteen minutes on those neworks for a $100 english course on cassette or CD.
The payment plan for such a course lowers the bar all the way down to the lowest-paid worker.
The local library of course, removes the bar entirely.
So: why expect learning from one group and not the other again?
-r
Wow is this racist?
54What Bush said was not racist. Silly, yes.
Bush said what immigrant parents, illegal or not, would say to their children born here.
The private language of home life is different than the public languages of academia, business, etc.
Confluences of different languages can and do work well.
McGill University is one institutionalized example.
Bush said what immigrant parents, illegal or not, would say to their children born here.
The private language of home life is different than the public languages of academia, business, etc.
Confluences of different languages can and do work well.
McGill University is one institutionalized example.
Wow is this racist?
55I have a question.
The reason this is a problem is because Mexico's economy is shit, so people come to America to earn money and send it back to their families, yes?
So, isn't trying to fix our immigration system a band-aid? Wouldn't a more solid (but lenghtier, more difficult, and well, probably borderline impossible) solution involve trying to figure out how to improve Mexico's economy?
I mean, i know that's over-simplistic, and the right wing would never consider even looking at that, but really, i'm curious--what does Mexico need to do to make their citizens not want to leave?
I'm not asking this in a "i don't want the Mexicans here" way, either. I'm simply assuming that the stereotypical illegal immigrant would prefer working in Mexico near their families if a livable wage was anywhere to be had. So, please, someone familiar with Mexican economy...enlighten me. What the fuck is the problem down there and what could help?
The reason this is a problem is because Mexico's economy is shit, so people come to America to earn money and send it back to their families, yes?
So, isn't trying to fix our immigration system a band-aid? Wouldn't a more solid (but lenghtier, more difficult, and well, probably borderline impossible) solution involve trying to figure out how to improve Mexico's economy?
I mean, i know that's over-simplistic, and the right wing would never consider even looking at that, but really, i'm curious--what does Mexico need to do to make their citizens not want to leave?
I'm not asking this in a "i don't want the Mexicans here" way, either. I'm simply assuming that the stereotypical illegal immigrant would prefer working in Mexico near their families if a livable wage was anywhere to be had. So, please, someone familiar with Mexican economy...enlighten me. What the fuck is the problem down there and what could help?
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Marsupialized wrote:Thank you so much for the pounding, it came in handy.
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56My understanding of things in Mexico is quite rudimentary, so someone please correct me if they have a better picture of the situation.
From some of the articles I have read here and there seemed to indicate that there is a class-based system there. Those of purer Spanish blood tend to have the better positions in society, as carried down through the years - they have better educations, better social connections, and better jobs. Those that are of mixed mestizo (spanish and indian) background have less status, power, money and influence. Those that are all or mostly mezo-american-indian fare the worst. They are the ones most driven to seek a better life elsewhere.
Looking around at the Latinos in Chicago, that would seem to be true. Most of the Latinos here don't appear to be of true Spanish descent. They look quite alot more indian than spaniard.
From some of the articles I have read here and there seemed to indicate that there is a class-based system there. Those of purer Spanish blood tend to have the better positions in society, as carried down through the years - they have better educations, better social connections, and better jobs. Those that are of mixed mestizo (spanish and indian) background have less status, power, money and influence. Those that are all or mostly mezo-american-indian fare the worst. They are the ones most driven to seek a better life elsewhere.
Looking around at the Latinos in Chicago, that would seem to be true. Most of the Latinos here don't appear to be of true Spanish descent. They look quite alot more indian than spaniard.
Marsupialized wrote:Right now somewhere nearby there is a fat video game nerd in his apartment fucking a pretty hot girl he met off craigslist. God bless that craig and his list.
Wow is this racist?
57Those who benefit from speaking english, which is the default language of national and international commerce, will surely learn it. Those who are content to live within a local sphere should not be compelled to do so.
Is it a good idea for immigrants to learn english? Probably. Should it be national policy and codified into law? Not unless a similar expectation is placed on the Executive.
I keed.
My family spoke Italian and Piedmontese way back. They built a life for themselves here as immigrants. The next generation spoke Italian and English. My generation speaks only English and Fake Italian. I feel like I lost a little something there.
Is it a good idea for immigrants to learn english? Probably. Should it be national policy and codified into law? Not unless a similar expectation is placed on the Executive.
I keed.
My family spoke Italian and Piedmontese way back. They built a life for themselves here as immigrants. The next generation spoke Italian and English. My generation speaks only English and Fake Italian. I feel like I lost a little something there.
steve albini
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.
Wow is this racist?
58DrAwkward wrote:I have a question.
The reason this is a problem is because Mexico's economy is shit, so people come to America to earn money and send it back to their families, yes?
So, isn't trying to fix our immigration system a band-aid? Wouldn't a more solid (but lenghtier, more difficult, and well, probably borderline impossible) solution involve trying to figure out how to improve Mexico's economy?
I mean, i know that's over-simplistic, and the right wing would never consider even looking at that, but really, i'm curious--what does Mexico need to do to make their citizens not want to leave?
I'm not asking this in a "i don't want the Mexicans here" way, either. I'm simply assuming that the stereotypical illegal immigrant would prefer working in Mexico near their families if a livable wage was anywhere to be had. So, please, someone familiar with Mexican economy...enlighten me. What the fuck is the problem down there and what could help?
Hey Dr. A,
I'd answer, in general terms; Mexico's economy is doing quite well compared to overall Latin/Central America.
Sure, it's no Brazil or Argentina (which have had incredible boom cycles), but most in Mexico want to stay and work and live there.
Most don’t want to leave and do not.
I've always wondered if we went in the opposite direction on immigration policy, i.e. opened the floodgates and let all pass through, if it would be the tidal wave right wing nut jobs fear.
I doubt it.
The big fear 100 years ago was that Mexican immigration would influence American culture more than economics. People actually worried Mexicans and Irish would find commonality in their faiths and lose sight of 'real America', whatever the hell that is.
Pat Buchanan is the only one who still fears this, I think.
Wow is this racist?
59Dr Awkward wrote
This presumes that immigration is fundamentally a problem, when in fact it is a necessity for sustained growth. Because the USA has negative population growth, an aging workforce and a need for cut price labour we see expoitation of immigrants in america and exploitation of mexicans in "maquiladora" factories on the border.
This whining about the existence of another language in america results from the fact that the USA wants workers and not people. And as the workers have no bagaining power, right wing politicians think they can enforce whatever regime of cultural whitewashing they want on immigrant workers.
fundamental answer, freedom of speech should not be limited to english. If I want to sing the national anthem off key in bad german, that would be my constitutional right.
So, isn't trying to fix our immigration system a band-aid? Wouldn't a more solid (but lenghtier, more difficult, and well, probably borderline impossible) solution involve trying to figure out how to improve Mexico's economy?
This presumes that immigration is fundamentally a problem, when in fact it is a necessity for sustained growth. Because the USA has negative population growth, an aging workforce and a need for cut price labour we see expoitation of immigrants in america and exploitation of mexicans in "maquiladora" factories on the border.
This whining about the existence of another language in america results from the fact that the USA wants workers and not people. And as the workers have no bagaining power, right wing politicians think they can enforce whatever regime of cultural whitewashing they want on immigrant workers.
fundamental answer, freedom of speech should not be limited to english. If I want to sing the national anthem off key in bad german, that would be my constitutional right.
Wow is this racist?
60why does english became the international language for buisness, world war 2, what happen at the end of the world war 2, neocolonialism!; corporations dividings the all world into economic pieces , who are they, 90% north american, why, because europe was down,english became the buisness language just because the richest corporations are english spokens !!!...
i remember my gran father who was an polish immigrant, he never learn french, at the end of his live he spoke a language betwenn polish and french he got a world for "asshole "he call it a "trousky" we can translate it in french by "trou du cul", it's quite simple he never learn french but he always find a way to be undertanding by peoples, i miss him, he got a very funny personnal langauge!!
long life to diversity TROUSKY!!!!!
he salut jeremy!!!
i remember my gran father who was an polish immigrant, he never learn french, at the end of his live he spoke a language betwenn polish and french he got a world for "asshole "he call it a "trousky" we can translate it in french by "trou du cul", it's quite simple he never learn french but he always find a way to be undertanding by peoples, i miss him, he got a very funny personnal langauge!!
long life to diversity TROUSKY!!!!!
he salut jeremy!!!