alex maiolo wrote:I
My agnostic parents took me to church until I was 9 because a lot of Americans go to church. My opinions about religion are based on having seen it.

I could not take another 9 years of church. I would rather clean up junkie vomit and mop out peep booths for an hour a week. Your parents must be made of stern stuff.

Johnny 13 wrote:

alex maiolo wrote:I
My agnostic parents took me to church until I was 9 because a lot of Americans go to church. My opinions about religion are based on having seen it.

I could not take another 9 years of church. I would rather clean up junkie vomit and mop out peep booths for an hour a week. Your parents must be made of stern stuff.

Yeah, they were typical academics in that way. That was a cool thing to do. I appreciate some aspects of religion and usually stop by St. Paul's for Evensong when I'm in London because it's pretty. I'd like to think that my opinions about what is right and what is wrong with religion are based on some first hand experience. Good job, Dr. and Mrs. Maiolo! We'll talk about the other stuff some other time...

Same with food. I have shot and killed stuff. I have gutted stuff. I have grown things and made entire meals for days on end from things that I planted, caught in a pond and killed.
Ocassionally I'll get a Big Mac, but usually I buy food from local places that use good ingredients - I'm fiercely proud of that and will take any self righteous eater to the wall on that one. And sometimes you can't. You have to eat processed shit ocassionally and I can enjoy that too.

But yes, church on the whole is not my thing. Appropriately, food is what makes me appreciate life and, funny thing, it makes it possible, unlike church.
I say I'm agnostic though, and not an athiest because the life cycle is a pretty impressive thing and I think I owe something a debt for that. No need for me to go to church though because I don't need someone to tell me how I should appreciate stuff - I already do.

-A

I used to teach in an inner city school, and it was rare as shit to find a kid who didn't have complete shit for lunch: Oscar Mayer lunchables and Orange soda. Mountain Dew and/or a Bologna Sandwich on Wonder Bread with mayonaise and a side of Rap Snax. And candy for "dessert".

If there ever was a parent that was concerned enough to try and raise their kid vegan (or even vegetarian) I found it to be awesome and laudable. Although I don't think I would do it (and I am a pesco-ovo vegetarian) I still would have respect for the parents commitment to detail- not to mention the fact that they are involved and putting some thought forth into raising their children. It's clear the Oscar Mayer and Mountain Dew parents are the uninvolved, uneducated ignoramuses, feeding their kids hog dicks loaded with sodium, and sugary sodas and candy. Why should I be upset with the parents who want their kids to have the ability to focus in school? In my experience 90% of the kids with ADHD or ADD weren't helped a bit from shitty sugar and preservative loaded diets.

I think I can remember two kids well who were raised with careful attention to diet. Both children had parents that were caring and concerned, thoughtful individuals. One of these kids was raised vegetarian, but her parents were both vegan. The other kid ate locally farmed food, including meat and very little processed food. Good kids. Thoughtful parents.

Was it "weird"? Yeah, I guess it was to the other teachers and parents who either thought it was a pain in the ass to deal with (as if caring not to stuff your child full of sugary processed shit food was "weird")

And I know some people will say that some parents can't afford to buy local, healthy or organic food.. Sure. This might be true. Some of them, yeah.

But others just opted for other bullshit material possessions instead of decent food for their kids, possessions like Cadillac Escalades, gold teeth, purebred Pitbulls for pets, tattoos and $200 Nike basketball shoes... All things we know are more important than the diets of those kids they accidently squeezed out..

As a side note: I don't know why non-vegetarians always feel threatened by vegetarians and vegans. I've never commented shit in 20 years of being a vegetarian to a carnivore unless asked- nor do I have problem with humans eating meat. But I always get shit from meat-eaters, especially ones 50+ years old. Always. Never fails.

mr.arrison wrote:As a side note: I don't know why non-vegetarians always feel threatened by vegetarians and vegans. I've never commented shit in 20 years of being a vegetarian to a carnivore unless asked- nor do I have problem with humans eating meat. But I always get shit from meat-eaters, especially ones 50+ years old. Always. Never fails.

Good post Mr. Arrison. You should have heard the shit my last boss was spewing. I wish this guy was one-of-a-kind, but I'll be damned if there aren't others like him. He'd go on and on about how crazy I am, and how come I don't miss meat. This guy's at least 250 pounds, mind you. I've never given anybody shit over their dietary choices, because, frankly, its superficial. I'd get weird stares, snide comments, and I'd just smile. For people to get worked up about something as superficial as a personal diet, its boggles my mind. I don't give you shit about that Cheese-Whiz, don't give me shit about my veggie-burger.

mr.arrison wrote:As a side note: I don't know why non-vegetarians always feel threatened by vegetarians and vegans. I've never commented shit in 20 years of being a vegetarian to a carnivore unless asked- nor do I have problem with humans eating meat. But I always get shit from meat-eaters, especially ones 50+ years old. Always. Never fails.

Well, if the time's right, call them on it. You have the facts, that's clear.

Here's what I mean:
I have a lot of friends who are vegetarian. Most of them could give a damn that I eat some meat. They are cool with the fact that I like to know where my meat comes from.
Ocassionally I'll catch hell from a vegetarian or maybe get a tsk-tsk because "as a smart guy, [I] should know better."

First I tell them that I'm not that smart.

Once that's out of the way I bring up points that I made earlier about what shipping organic food really costs us. Also, nitrogen fertilzer is a FOSSIL FUEL derrivative. Fish probably have as many feelings as a chicken, and most of all, the life of a egg laying chicken is, by most accounts, the shittiest experience in the food world. The beak is clipped and three sit in a little pyramid making eggs, without an ounce of space to move, until they are slaughtered 6 weeks later to make chicken meat. Egg eaters are complicit in the death if they eat regular store bought eggs. Another thing I like to point out is that field mice and other animals are crushed by the thousands as machines harvest vegetables on organic farms. No matter how vegan you are, things die so you can eat.

So, again I say, the most moral thing you can do is *care* about your food. Don't take shit for being a vegetarian - it's your choice - especially from people who eat sodium laced lips and assholes for dinner each night.

Personally, I don't see any good reasons for raising a kid vegan. It's not healthy whereas ovo-lacto vegetarianism *can* be if done properly.
Ovo/lacto/fish...o, is still "meat eating" and we are made to get a certain amount of meat each day, albeit far less than we usually do.
Your point about the parents being involved is a very good one though. Nice one.

-A

mr.arrison wrote:As a side note: I don't know why non-vegetarians always feel threatened by vegetarians and vegans. I've never commented shit in 20 years of being a vegetarian to a carnivore unless asked- nor do I have problem with humans eating meat. But I always get shit from meat-eaters, especially ones 50+ years old. Always. Never fails.

that's weird. if i compare my years as a vegetarian to those as a meat-eater, i can honestly say i received more grief as a meat-eater than i did as a vegetarian. i've always found vegetarians/vegans (including myself when it was applicable) a lot more unforgiving than the other side--not all, not even a majority, but more, at least in my experience.

Colonel Panic wrote:Raising kids to be vegan:

http://www.current.tv/watch/2683042

That kid at the end is HOT!

Ive been a vegetarian for about 10 years now. I've often thought about how I might handle my vegetarianism should I have kids. My feeling on it has always been that the best thing to do is just expose the kids to what you normally eat and see how they like it. It seems to me that most kids model their parents eating habits so if you're eating healthfully while not attaching a negative attitude towards meat, you're kids will likely want the more healthful food. And, if they should enjoy a hotdog or cupcake at school, then so be it. At some point they're going to be old enough to make those decisions for themselves anyway.

It's like we always tell parents at the library...If your kids see you reading then they'll model that and want to read as well. But, if you watch tv all day meanwhile forcing it on them, they will attach negativity to it and not want to do it. Hence, just model good eating habits and allow them to make their own choices.

These people are fucking vega-nazis.

I fully support vegan diets, I think vegetarians and vegans can have a much healthier life than non-vegs, but still...let your kids make their own decisions.

What's right for some folks isn't right for other folks.

Some of those kids look fine, some look gross and sickly. Throw them a fucking hamburger with a glass of milk for god's sakes.

Fucking hippies.

Skronk wrote:don't give me shit about my veggie-burger.

Oh, I'll give you shit. If your going to green light a veggie-burger at a restaurant or at a BBQ my advice to you is to eat a fucking Salad!! Tofu? Is that your comeback? Have it on the side with some Ponzu sauce..It's delicious. If your reply is you like the taste???? Again, splurge once in a while and just have a fucking burger.

I happen to like both Salads and tofu too. However, i'm not going to convince myself it should be in Burger form. Example: On the other side.... It would be like a meat eater asking for a Hamburger Salad with extra meat and no salad.

kenoki wrote:

mr.arrison wrote:As a side note: I don't know why non-vegetarians always feel threatened by vegetarians and vegans. I've never commented shit in 20 years of being a vegetarian to a carnivore unless asked- nor do I have problem with humans eating meat. But I always get shit from meat-eaters, especially ones 50+ years old. Always. Never fails.

that's weird. if i compare my years as a vegetarian to those as a meat-eater, i can honestly say i received more grief as a meat-eater than i did as a vegetarian. i've always found vegetarians/vegans (including myself when it was applicable) a lot more unforgiving than the other side--not all, not even a majority, but more, at least in my experience.

Yea, I've eaten at Veggie restaurants. I don't order ridiculous things like Veggie chicken(Chicken flavored soy)wraps or Veggie Cheese Bacon Burgers(these things are on the menu at veggie restaurants for those of you that don't know.) I order some good veggie dishes and then follow it up with a healthy ?meat? dinner. No problem here on my end. Oh wait, the vegans are now burning me in effigy because I ate an animal.

alex maiolo wrote: Another thing I like to point out is that field mice and other animals are crushed by the thousands as machines harvest vegetables on organic farms. No matter how vegan you are, things die so you can eat.

When it's all said and done, eat healthy and don't be an anal about your food one way or another. However, don't trick yourself into thinking your eating something which it is not(see above "Veggie Burger.") Try everything, food should be enjoyed.

Take it away Hellyes!! You've made the most sensible post here(including my drunken ramblings)

hellyes!! wrote:Ive been a vegetarian for about 10 years now. I've often thought about how I might handle my vegetarianism should I have kids. My feeling on it has always been that the best thing to do is just expose the kids to what you normally eat and see how they like it. It seems to me that most kids model their parents eating habits so if you're eating healthfully while not attaching a negative attitude towards meat, you're kids will likely want the more healthful food. And, if they should enjoy a hotdog or cupcake at school, then so be it. At some point they're going to be old enough to make those decisions for themselves anyway.

It's like we always tell parents at the library...If your kids see you reading then they'll model that and want to read as well. But, if you watch tv all day meanwhile forcing it on them, they will attach negativity to it and not want to do it. Hence, just model good eating habits and allow them to make their own choices.