Premier Rock Forum

Angus Jung wrote:

ginandtacos.com wrote:With Brad "The Human Gas Can" Lidge and Wheeler, Qualls, etc pitching this badly I can't imagine how Houston got this far.

Clearly, you did not watch the NLDS against the Braves, or the great majority of the NLCS.

Other than Lidge's meatball to Pujols, and WS Game 2, the Astros bullpen has been lights-out.

Is Bobby Jenks also "The Human Gas Can" now?

Actually I did, and I am just giving Lidge some shit. His slider is the most unhittable pitch in baseball. The rest of Houston's bullpen, though, is a great big "meh".

I dislike Bobby Jenks. Hermanson should be closing games. Jenks has mastery of exactly one pitch. Any good fastball hitter can light him up. Any poor fastball hitter doesn't stand a chance. As a closer, I think that's pretty lousy odds - "He's lights out, unless they send someone who can hit a fastball to the plate."

ginandtacos.com wrote:I dislike Bobby Jenks. Hermanson should be closing games. Jenks has mastery of exactly one pitch. Any good fastball hitter can light him up. Any poor fastball hitter doesn't stand a chance. As a closer, I think that's pretty lousy odds - "He's lights out, unless they send someone who can hit a fastball to the plate."

Bobby Jenks is a very young, inexperienced pitcher. But he had been perfect in the postseason (going against some very good fastball hitters on the Red Sox in the ALDS) before Sunday.

Ozzie Guillen is exceptionally good at bullpen management. Throughout the season, he has shown a willingness to use any of his relievers at any time. In other words, he doesn't get caught up in the stupid practice of fixed role assignments for his relievers, as so many other big-league managers do (I'm THE CLOSER, ergo I ONLY PITCH THE 9TH INNING).

None of the commentators ever seem to make any mention of Ozzie Guillen's fearless, anti-traditional, highly effective approach to bullpen management. I wonder why that is. Perhaps it is more important to spend their time worshiping bunts.

I will be interested to see how he handles the bullpen, assuming he needs to, for the remainder of the World Series.

I might have to disagree with you. I think his bullpen management is suspect. He is far too beholden to pitch counts, set "roles" and playing percentages.

Example. Politte mowed down the Astros 8th inning in game 2. Why not leave him in? He brought in Jenks specifically because "He's the closer."

Fatigue isn't an issue. Politte threw about 10 pitches.

He also makes a lot of changes because he "needs" to match up a lefty vs a righty, etc etc. Why not leave in the guy who's pitching well?

Example. Game 3 vs Boston....Guillen brings in the horrendous Damaso Marte because he wanted to match up a lefty with the middle of Boston's order. Marte loads the bases with nobody out in about 90 seconds. Rather than worrying about which arm the reliever uses, shouldn't he have been more worried about whether said pitcher can actually get anyone out?

ginandtacos.com wrote:[Lidge's] slider is the most unhittable pitch in baseball.

I don't know that there is a most unhittable pitch, but it's fun to discuss it.

Mariano Rivera's cutter is still completely wicked.

A good signature Barry Zito curveball still falls from the sky like nothing that I have ever seen from anyone else.

Randy Johnson's slider can still be murder, too, although too often it's murder on him these days.

Johan Santana has a great changeup, but that pitch and the little squirrel who throws it just bug me for some reason.

But I'm still pretty sure that Keith Foulke's "A" changeup is the most devastating single pitch that I have ever seen. Holy crap!

djimbe, you've got issues it appears. you gotta love when a team goes to the world series for the first time in ages, how all the newbie bandwagon baseball fans come out in force. ha!

white sox have the "home field advantage" as far as playing potentially 4 games in chicago to 3 in houston.

got that?

ok, this gets tricky right here:
the home team, tonight it is the houston astros, should be able to play their home games the same as they do in the regular season. and up till this point, the playoffs. if they want to keep the roof closed, so be it. if they want to open it, let them. it should be their call and not selig's. the allstar game has nothing to do with this. jeez louise.

make sense now?

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:

ginandtacos.com wrote:[Lidge's] slider is the most unhittable pitch in baseball.

I don't know that there is a most unhittable pitch, but it's fun to discuss it.

Mariano Rivera's cutter is still completely wicked.

A good signature Barry Zito curveball still falls from the sky like nothing that I have ever seen from anyone else.

Randy Johnson's slider can still be murder, too, although too often it's murder on him these days.

Johan Santana has a great changeup, but that pitch and the little squirrel who throws it just bug me for some reason.

But I'm still pretty sure that Keith Foulke's "A" changeup is the most devastating single pitch that I have ever seen. Holy crap!

This list, she is good!

Santana's changeup is probably the nastiest shit I've seen, but Lidge's slider wins by a nose because it's flat-out impossible to lay off of when he's hitting his location.

Add to list:

1. Contreras' forkball
2. AJ Burnett's curveball
3. Pedro Martinez's various breaking stuff

Also, people forget about just how good Billy Koch was because he wasn't that good for very long. But when he was dominant, his split-finger fastball was literally unhittable.

waltermalling wrote:sorry i said closed instead of open.
they obviously want it closed.
mlb won't let them and the roof will
be open for all 3 games.

Obviously Walter has some sort of problem with antonyms. This should be regarded when reading absolutely everything he says.

ginandtacos.com wrote:I might have to disagree with you. I think his bullpen management is suspect. He is far too beholden to pitch counts, set "roles" and playing percentages.

Example. Politte mowed down the Astros 8th inning in game 2. Why not leave him in? He brought in Jenks specifically because "He's the closer."

Fatigue isn't an issue. Politte threw about 10 pitches.

He also makes a lot of changes because he "needs" to match up a lefty vs a righty, etc etc. Why not leave in the guy who's pitching well?

Example. Game 3 vs Boston....Guillen brings in the horrendous Damaso Marte because he wanted to match up a lefty with the middle of Boston's order. Marte loads the bases with nobody out in about 90 seconds. Rather than worrying about which arm the reliever uses, shouldn't he have been more worried about whether said pitcher can actually get anyone out?

You do realize that the White Sox have lost 1 postseason game in 2005?

Amusing lipreading in the 5th.

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:But I'm still pretty sure that Keith Foulke's "A" changeup is the most devastating single pitch that I have ever seen. Holy crap!

I might have to agree with you, if for no other reason than that every other pitch Keith Foulke throws is mediocre at best. None of the other pitchers on your list are as one-dimensional as Foulke, in my opinion.

All he really has is that change-up, and yet he still dominates big league hitters, and has done so over a period of some years.