Gramsci wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 3:38 am

losthighway wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2026 6:54 pm

Curry Pervert wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2026 6:34 pm Yeah there's also the elephant in the room, that these 'shitty governments' are often only there because of US meddling in the first place.

Also 100% true.

Completely agree. But Whataboutism doesn’t change the reality that Iran is a grubby capitalist theocracy. What gets missed here is a genuine revolution was co-opted by theocrats who promptly mass murdered the leftists that were key the Shah’s overthrow. So giving the thugs that now rule Iran with an iron fist a “whatabout”, doesn’t cut it.

FYI:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... ataboutism

Just to clarify.

The authoritarian theocracy ruling Iran. Bad.

United States military aggression against Iran. Bad.

My point about whataboutism, kicks in when someone uses the bottom bad, to excuse or justify the top bad.

People are free to choose whom is the top and whom is the bottom.

Gramsci wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 12:06 pm The authoritarian theocracy ruling Iran. Bad.

United States military aggression against Iran. Bad.

My point about whataboutism, kicks in when someone uses the bottom bad, to excuse or justify the top bad.

Brate, the reason you get the chance to excuse or justify the top with the bottom is because the bottom is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for to the top one!

Wood Goblin wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 10:23 am It still bewilders me that the US voted in a guy who (a) has done everything in his power (and some things that aren’t in his power) to destroy the clean energy industry in the US and to bolster the fossil fuel industry, then (b) fucked the global fossil fuel industry. I guess it’s still hunky dory if you’re a US driller, though, so I’m excited to learn how he manages to fuck them over too.

The effects are kaleidoscopic. On the one hand, US drillers were consciously not developing site proven to be oil rich because it wasn't even cost effective to pursue them. The return on the investment was too low. That's likely to change. On the other hand the EV industry just got a shot in the arm and has shown an uptick in vehicle sales. It would be funny if the whole crisis just bolstered green energy.

Also bewildering, Trump declaring that the U.S. is going to blockade the Strait of Hormuz. The foreign policy equivalent of, "I know you are but what am I?". Or is it more "You can't fire me because I quit!"?

What's not funny is this could lead to a ground war which would magnify all of the negatives significantly.

I’m sure the markets will love the US Hormuz blockade!

Trump apparently said last week that the US and Iran could split the toll for passage, so I’m guessing that one didn’t exactly appeal to Iran during the weekend “negotiations.”

losthighway wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 12:26 pm Also bewildering, Trump declaring that the U.S. is going to blockade the Strait of Hormuz. The foreign policy equivalent of, "I know you are but what am I?". Or is it more "You can't fire me because I quit!"?

Don't know if you seen this in the news cycle, but it almost came to blows between Witkoff and someone from the Iranian team in regards to this matter. I almost spat my food out when I read it. Just deeply UNserious situation.

Lu Zwei wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 12:30 pm

losthighway wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 12:26 pm Also bewildering, Trump declaring that the U.S. is going to blockade the Strait of Hormuz. The foreign policy equivalent of, "I know you are but what am I?". Or is it more "You can't fire me because I quit!"?

Don't know if you seen this in the news cycle, but it almost came to blows between Witkoff and someone from the Iranian team in regards to this matter. I almost spat my food out when I read it. Just deeply UNserious situation.

Dang. Witkoff is a clown.

Lu Zwei wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 12:24 pm

Gramsci wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2026 12:06 pm The authoritarian theocracy ruling Iran. Bad.

United States military aggression against Iran. Bad.

My point about whataboutism, kicks in when someone uses the bottom bad, to excuse or justify the top bad.

Brate, the reason you get the chance to excuse or justify the top with the bottom is because the bottom is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for to the top one!

We’re really messing with a metaphors here. You do realise the Iranian revolution (a good idea) was co-opted by the theocratic thugs that now run the country (a bad idea). And that the cause of the revolution is not an excuse for the behaviour of said theocratic thugs?

You’re confusing a reason with excuses.

We’re not going to agree. I’m happy to hold multiple ideas in my head at once, so I can’t see this conversation resolving neatly.

This also slams rightfully.

https://x.com/i/status/2043042163659817114

Don't know much about Dillon, I read that he's in the Rogan sphere, but unlike him he kinda changed drastically, which gets a bit credit I guess. He still supported Trump initially.