Are there any law students or lawyers here? I feel like I remember reading that one or two of you were...
I've applied, and if accepted, will start in May.
Does anyone have any advice, tips, words of wisdom, funny stories, or miscellaneous comments about law school - particularly the 1L experience?
Law School
2yah. whaddya want to know?
grades are super important, you have to kick ass the first year. and you are graded only on one exam at the end of the semester. so you have to be totally self-motivated and organized and not fuck off for the whole semester and hope to pull it all together in the last couple of weeks.
and likely you will be surrounded by assholes.
grades are super important, you have to kick ass the first year. and you are graded only on one exam at the end of the semester. so you have to be totally self-motivated and organized and not fuck off for the whole semester and hope to pull it all together in the last couple of weeks.
and likely you will be surrounded by assholes.
Law School
3Linus Van Pelt wrote:I've applied, and if accepted, will start in May.
What school will you attend? Employers fight over good students from the "name schools". So go the best school that will accept you -- money and distance be damned. This is the best advice that I can give to you.
In the midwest, the "name schools" are, in rough "descending" order, U of Chicago, Michigan, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Notre Dame, Washington University, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio State. Here is how U.S.News and World Report ranks the law schools.
$music is correct. Grades are critical. Assholes abound.
Also, you should get involved with a journal/law review as soon as possible. Despite the fact that journals/law reviews have absolutely nothing to do with the actual practice of law, employers go crazy for law review participants, particularly editors.
Find a good mentor at law school. Do not be shy about this. Find a professor to whom you can relate, and make it your task to befriend this person without being smarmy about it. If this person likes you, then he/she will help you. This person will make your life easier.
You should also begin working on obtaining summer employment for next summer. Law firms do not hire many 1Ls for summer associateships, but you should try to find something (e.g., state's attorney) that allows you to get some experience.
And get involved in the law clinic. This is the small pro-bono "law firm" that every law school operates. Law clinic was a great experience for me.
The 1L experience is fine, but be aware that it's a lot of hard work, frustration and lame competition with lame-os. I just ignored those losers. Anyway, you'll read more than you have ever read in your life, and your brain will recalibrate itself. Your brain will change, and you will develop a wicked new approach to viewing the world. It's weird, but it's a great tool to have.
Bottom line: if you go to a good school and get good grades, then you will be in good shape. If you go to a great law school and get great grades, then the world is yours. Just keep in mind that after you finish law school, you are required to use your powers and resources for good, Superman.
There you go! All that you could ever need to know about entering the practice of law!
Don't hesitate to ask me any other questions!
I know all about this crap!
Last edited by Bradley R Weissenberger_Archive on Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Law School
5it is really neat stuff to learn, at least it was for me. I had a pretty good understanding of how the court system functioned (i was a paralegal for two years prior) but to see the whole thing put together, courts, legislature, executive branch, and the roles they play - it is graduate level civics combined with a tool kit that can eventually help you play a part in that system if you desire.
be patient, be not arrogant, be studious. be clever, and just keep going.
and don't spend all your spare time hanging around with law students, arguing about law shit. that shit drove me insane. thank god for the band. two or three nights a week, for a few hours, i could blast all that crap straight outta my head with high volume RAWK! kept me from sticking a pencil in the neck of the cocks i encountered.
be patient, be not arrogant, be studious. be clever, and just keep going.
and don't spend all your spare time hanging around with law students, arguing about law shit. that shit drove me insane. thank god for the band. two or three nights a week, for a few hours, i could blast all that crap straight outta my head with high volume RAWK! kept me from sticking a pencil in the neck of the cocks i encountered.
Law School
6If you are remotely prone to insanity, law school is going to bring out the full monty in you. Any negative tendencies you have are going to be magnified 1000 times by that environment.
It's cutthroat, most of the people you'll be around are utter pricks, and grading is so competitive that you have to freak out about scoring 1 point lower than someone else on an exam.
Then when you graduate you get to discover that the market is absolutely flooded with law school graduates - after all, when the economy goes in the shitter people tend to flock back to school. Especially those with liberal arts degrees and poor employment opportunities. So all the sugar plums dancing in the heads of law school students about making $100,000 your first year out are likely unrealistic. If you don't finish at the absolute top of your class, you'll have to fight like hell just to get a shitty job making $30,000 in the Public Defender's office.
I know 6 people who have graduated from law school in Chicago in the last two years. Five of them were unable to secure even the worst jobs and are now working in fields unrelated to their law degree. Two of them are waiting tables. Good luck.
It's cutthroat, most of the people you'll be around are utter pricks, and grading is so competitive that you have to freak out about scoring 1 point lower than someone else on an exam.
Then when you graduate you get to discover that the market is absolutely flooded with law school graduates - after all, when the economy goes in the shitter people tend to flock back to school. Especially those with liberal arts degrees and poor employment opportunities. So all the sugar plums dancing in the heads of law school students about making $100,000 your first year out are likely unrealistic. If you don't finish at the absolute top of your class, you'll have to fight like hell just to get a shitty job making $30,000 in the Public Defender's office.
I know 6 people who have graduated from law school in Chicago in the last two years. Five of them were unable to secure even the worst jobs and are now working in fields unrelated to their law degree. Two of them are waiting tables. Good luck.
Law School
8Just to echo:
1. Go to the best school you can get into. If it is a top 10 school you will be in great shape with decent grades (no need to be top of the class). I went to UT Austin's Law school in the late 80's and early 90's. I never actually went to class as there was too much rock going on, too much hellacious fun. I finished near the bottom of my class. Fortunately, law school's will pass you on almost without regard to how poorly you are doing. My brother, 12 years my junior, has followed all big brother's advice and weedled his way into Duke. He interned in China last summer with a firm that had no intention of hiring him. He had no real responsibilities. His grades are just about average in the 'B' range. Not a single 'A.' he is interested in doing Labor Law, Sports K's and the like. He is being heavily courted by the biggest such firm in the world right now and is being told he will start at $125,000 a year and will be able to choose between Chi-Town and NYC. The name power of Duke Law is key, not to mention my bro has an impressive background (Ba from Wake, Ma from Cornell).
2. Grades are of paramount import. If you do well at a good school you write your own ticket. You will get a job unless you are an unconcionable asshole. Sell out for first year grades if you really want to make this your career. There are other ways to earn your bones afrter grad if the grades don't go your way and there are plenty of top trial guys who did poorly in Law School. They are movie stars, however, and unless you want to gamble on charisma and a knack with juries, best do well. Further, thereis no real reason for the third year of school, so your interest and stamina will have waxed by that point and the subject matter will be of no consequence to most potential employers.
3. Assholes abound. Law student and Business School students know how to party and like to let off steam. I had some fun in that sense. However, my expectation was that I would meet really interesting and accomplished people. They were all glorified stenographers. Great at regurgitation, average at best when the task was creative thinking. Even worse, they were money grubbing cocksuckers without soul as 8 is to 1.
4. Ask yourself if you really want to be a lawyer. Many people get out of the trade within a few years of graduating. It is a great job for certain types, and a necessary profession in our society. Very important and therefore potentially rewarding both monetarily and spiritually. Check the nature of your spirit first, though, because Law School and the legal profession is not for everyone and the ticket inside the tent, so to speak, is onerous.
1. Go to the best school you can get into. If it is a top 10 school you will be in great shape with decent grades (no need to be top of the class). I went to UT Austin's Law school in the late 80's and early 90's. I never actually went to class as there was too much rock going on, too much hellacious fun. I finished near the bottom of my class. Fortunately, law school's will pass you on almost without regard to how poorly you are doing. My brother, 12 years my junior, has followed all big brother's advice and weedled his way into Duke. He interned in China last summer with a firm that had no intention of hiring him. He had no real responsibilities. His grades are just about average in the 'B' range. Not a single 'A.' he is interested in doing Labor Law, Sports K's and the like. He is being heavily courted by the biggest such firm in the world right now and is being told he will start at $125,000 a year and will be able to choose between Chi-Town and NYC. The name power of Duke Law is key, not to mention my bro has an impressive background (Ba from Wake, Ma from Cornell).
2. Grades are of paramount import. If you do well at a good school you write your own ticket. You will get a job unless you are an unconcionable asshole. Sell out for first year grades if you really want to make this your career. There are other ways to earn your bones afrter grad if the grades don't go your way and there are plenty of top trial guys who did poorly in Law School. They are movie stars, however, and unless you want to gamble on charisma and a knack with juries, best do well. Further, thereis no real reason for the third year of school, so your interest and stamina will have waxed by that point and the subject matter will be of no consequence to most potential employers.
3. Assholes abound. Law student and Business School students know how to party and like to let off steam. I had some fun in that sense. However, my expectation was that I would meet really interesting and accomplished people. They were all glorified stenographers. Great at regurgitation, average at best when the task was creative thinking. Even worse, they were money grubbing cocksuckers without soul as 8 is to 1.
4. Ask yourself if you really want to be a lawyer. Many people get out of the trade within a few years of graduating. It is a great job for certain types, and a necessary profession in our society. Very important and therefore potentially rewarding both monetarily and spiritually. Check the nature of your spirit first, though, because Law School and the legal profession is not for everyone and the ticket inside the tent, so to speak, is onerous.
Law School
9Bradley! Thank you for all the good advice. You have told me one thing in particular that I did not want to hear, and one thing in particular that I did want to hear.
Oh! I have applied to Thomas M. Cooley in Lansing. In light of your advice, I think I will apply to U of M. Relocation is not an option right now, and I don't want to wait to go to school until it is an option. Commuting to Ann Arbor is not appealing, but it's probably worth it. The biggest appeal of Cooley, besides the location, is the fact that, based on my LSAT score, I can go there for free. Getting out of school with relatively small debt would then allow me to be choosier with my work - not needing a high-paying job to pay down my debt, I could pick a more satisfying job instead. But I think you are right: To have one of the nation's best law schools an hour away and not even apply would be a wasted opportunity.
I am glad to hear this! Because this has been my plan all along, and I'm glad to hear somebody else has had this plan, and succeeded in it!
My plan is: to ignore losers!
Yes!
The only other question I have at the moment is: How much importance would you place on deciding right away What Kind of Law You Want to Practice? I don't really know right now, and I'm hoping to figure it out in school. But then I hear that in law school, you should really be focusing on that type of law, but how can I do that if I don't even know yet? Should I commit to something now, and risk getting screwed later, when it turns out I hate that particular field, or there's no work in it? Or should I wait until I'm in my second or third year, and risk having lost the chance to make the right connections in that field?
Thank you again for your advice - all of it, even the parts I didn't quote above, is greatly appreciated!
Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:What school will you attend? Employers fight over good students from the "name schools". In the midwest, the "name schools" are, in rough "descending" order, U of Chicago, Michigan, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Washington University, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio State.
Go the best school that will accept you -- money and distance be damned. This is the best advice that I can give to you.
Oh! I have applied to Thomas M. Cooley in Lansing. In light of your advice, I think I will apply to U of M. Relocation is not an option right now, and I don't want to wait to go to school until it is an option. Commuting to Ann Arbor is not appealing, but it's probably worth it. The biggest appeal of Cooley, besides the location, is the fact that, based on my LSAT score, I can go there for free. Getting out of school with relatively small debt would then allow me to be choosier with my work - not needing a high-paying job to pay down my debt, I could pick a more satisfying job instead. But I think you are right: To have one of the nation's best law schools an hour away and not even apply would be a wasted opportunity.
I just ignored those losers.
I am glad to hear this! Because this has been my plan all along, and I'm glad to hear somebody else has had this plan, and succeeded in it!
My plan is: to ignore losers!
After you finish law school, then you are required to use your powers for good, Superman.
Yes!
Don't hesitate to ask me any other questions!
The only other question I have at the moment is: How much importance would you place on deciding right away What Kind of Law You Want to Practice? I don't really know right now, and I'm hoping to figure it out in school. But then I hear that in law school, you should really be focusing on that type of law, but how can I do that if I don't even know yet? Should I commit to something now, and risk getting screwed later, when it turns out I hate that particular field, or there's no work in it? Or should I wait until I'm in my second or third year, and risk having lost the chance to make the right connections in that field?
Thank you again for your advice - all of it, even the parts I didn't quote above, is greatly appreciated!
Why do you make it so scary to post here.
Law School
10My new upstairs neighbors are at cooley.
They really like to nitpick the landlord over tenant law stuff, I think it's like a hobby for them. I keep reading these notes like "Will, you cannot park your car in our driveway while you are doing repairs here. According to Lansing Housing law, you are required to park in the street or an alternate space...blah blah"
He's a nice guy so I feel kinda bad for him.
They really like to nitpick the landlord over tenant law stuff, I think it's like a hobby for them. I keep reading these notes like "Will, you cannot park your car in our driveway while you are doing repairs here. According to Lansing Housing law, you are required to park in the street or an alternate space...blah blah"
He's a nice guy so I feel kinda bad for him.