Hi!

This is my first post here.

I'm building my own little 8track analog studio and thought maybe someone here could spare some time to give me a little advice!

Since I'm being limited to 8tracks, and I'd like to not do any ping pong operations, I don't wanna use more than 4 tracks for the drums.
Up to now, I was using 2 overheads (cheap behringer ecm8000), one snare mic (sm57) and bass drum mic (AKG 112).

I relealize that the behringers are the weak spot of my recording setup, so I'm planning to get some new overheads in the next months.

But there's one thing that bugges me: Should I stick to this 4 mic setup, or would it be better to get more mics (like 2 Sennheiser MD421 for the 2 toms, and another sm57 for snare bottom) and have about 7 mics recorded on 4 tracks.
If I'd go for the later, I'd record left OH + floor tom on one track, right OH + tom tom on another, both snare mics on one track and the BD on one track.
Now, is it an good idea to put a tom and an overhead on the same track?
In regards like EQlizing it during mix down, or adding reverb/effects, and of course panning.
Is it a good idea to record both snare mics on one track?
I'm aware of phase problems, so it would require to very carefully place the mics..

I'd really apreciate any advice on those issues.
Thanks,
Bastian

p.s.: oh, and if you can recommand any overheads in the $300 price range that will do fine with built-in mackie 1402 preamps (i.e. no mics that are "too good" to effectly use with those preamps), that would be great too!

Grenouille wrote:But there's one thing that bugges me: Should I stick to this 4 mic setup, or would it be better to get more mics (like 2 Sennheiser MD421 for the 2 toms, and another sm57 for snare bottom) and have about 7 mics recorded on 4 tracks.
If I'd go for the later, I'd record left OH + floor tom on one track, right OH + tom tom on another, both snare mics on one track and the BD on one track.

You should invest in these microphones only if you cannot get an acceptable sound with what you are using, i.e., if you need more presence from the toms. Personally, I’d forget about a bottom snare mic. Your kit mics (or overheads as you say) are the most important in getting a balanced, overall sound, and I would concentrate my efforts on experimenting with the placement of these mics. I don’t know anything about the Behringers you’re using, so I can’t comment on that. Maybe it would be a better investment to upgrade these mics, if they’re as bad as you say.

Don't be afraid of committing multiple mics to few tracks; in your situation it is undoubtedly your best option. I wouldn’t print each tom hard left and right unless you want it to be that extreme in the mix. Maybe panning them somewhere between the two overhead tracks would be a better option. Listen and decide what best suits the music.

Have you considered recording the drums in mono? You could use your normal micing techniques and sum the overheads (with or without toms) to one track, or invest in a good single microphone as a mono overhead. Where track space is an issue, this can be a viable alternative, unless you need to hear the drums panned around in an artificial stereo environment. Also, if you have sufficient leakage from the other instruments (recorded live), the bleed between mics can fill in your stereo space nicely.

Working with limited tracks can be fun, and it forces you to be creative and consider the bigger picture of the music you’re recording. Sometimes this works out better than having unlimited options. Listen and think critically, and you should end up with decent results. With a little practice and bravado, you might end up committing the drums to one or two tracks. Good luck.

-greasygoose

Thanks for your reply!

No bottom snare? Hmm..
The behringers are measuring microphones, so maybe not suited for
a recording of several drum parts (toms, cymbals).. but I'm not really
into microphone characteristics yet..
Here they are: http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/thoiw2_ ... 23218.html

I guess I gotta try around a little more to improve the sound.
Might post a clip in a few days..

Grenouille wrote:No bottom snare? Hmm..
The behringers are measuring microphones, so maybe not suited for
a recording of several drum parts (toms, cymbals).. but I'm not really
into microphone characteristics yet..
Here they are: http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/thoiw2_ ... 23218.html

The drumkit as a whole is an instrument. You should think of it as such when recording, not as a collection of individual “parts.” Unless your drummer is so bad that he is going to overdub each drum individually, you have to realize that each part is going to spill into the other part’s microphone, no matter how directional that mic is. Use this knowledge to your advantage. Your Behringers are picking up not just the cymbals and toms, but the snare, kick and hi hat as well.

Incidentally, the data sheet for these mics is available from Behringer’s website:
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/pr ... 0&lang=eng

As measurement microphones, they are designed to be flat and omnidirectional, both of which are good characteristics for how you intend to use them, as far as I’m concerned. Their biggest drawback is probably that they are made by Behringer. Put them left and right a few feet in front of the kit and experiment with height. If you want to get fancy, keep them the same distance from a point on the bass drum to help you keep them in phase. Put your money into some tom mics and some decent preamps.

I guess I gotta try around a little more to improve the sound.
Might post a clip in a few days..

I, for one, don’t think that’s necessary, as an MP3 is virtually worthless as far as making critical evaluations, and your own ears and willingness to experiment must ultimately guide you, not someone else’s observations like “The hi hat’s too loud” or “the toms sound really distant.” Best of luck to you.

-greasygoose

If you have the patience from your side and the drummer's, why not experiment by using only two tracks for your drums. Place and commit everything to how you would mix it. Record some snippits and give them a listen. Adjust as required. Set it and forget it. It is like mono except it is stereo.

I own a pair of Oktava MC012 small diaphragm condenser microphones. They might create a brittle sound at times for overheads, but they could also be used on your snare, top or bottom. They were cheap also. Less than $300 dollars and they're Russian.

With the bottom snare head you want to phase invert it so there is little phase issues. The mic placement can't really get around this problem. If you swap your hot and cold mic pins on your XLR on ONE END ONLY this will act like the phase switch one might have on the console.

The drumkit as a whole is an instrument. You should think of it as such when recording, not as a collection of individual “parts.”

greasygoose isn't taking a dump with these words. He speaketh the truth and it shall set you free.

-Mike

greasygoose wrote:I, for one, don’t think that’s necessary, as an MP3 is virtually worthless as far as making critical evaluations-greasygoose

I am so glad to finally see someone else voice this opinion.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC