I don't know if I should invest in a decent mic pre or not...

Is it extremely beneficial to use mic preamps when recording instead of just lining direct into your recording machine, or using a mixer? I already have a good mixer, and I get a preamp (obviously), EQ, panning and effects sends with it, which is good.

Also, is there a tube mic pre available for $100 or less that has output channels for each input channel? My mixer only has L/R speaker outs and a mono line-out. I would want to run a few mics into this thing and have outputs for each mic so I can send them to individual tracks on my recording machine. Its frustrating to have to record everything thats going into the mixer to one mono track and not being able to EQ each individual track after the fact. To achieve the desired results, I have to ride faders and twiddle around with the EQ knobs for a very long time, since thats whats going into the recorder and I cant do anything to each individual track afterwards... I can only modify that one mono track. Maybe I should practice mixing more often? I just dont know...

Musicians Friend has that ART Tube Mic Pre for $30 dollars... would that thing be worth it by any stretch of the imagination?

WoundedFoot wrote:I don't know if I should invest in a decent mic pre or not...

Is it extremely beneficial to use mic preamps when recording instead of just lining direct into your recording machine, or using a mixer? I already have a good mixer, and I get a preamp (obviously), EQ, panning and effects sends with it, which is good.

Also, is there a tube mic pre available for $100 or less that has output channels for each input channel? My mixer only has L/R speaker outs and a mono line-out. I would want to run a few mics into this thing and have outputs for each mic so I can send them to individual tracks on my recording machine. Its frustrating to have to record everything thats going into the mixer to one mono track and not being able to EQ each individual track after the fact. To achieve the desired results, I have to ride faders and twiddle around with the EQ knobs for a very long time, since thats whats going into the recorder and I cant do anything to each individual track afterwards... I can only modify that one mono track. Maybe I should practice mixing more often? I just dont know...

Musicians Friend has that ART Tube Mic Pre for $30 dollars... would that thing be worth it by any stretch of the imagination?

Wow I can't believe the shitstorm hasn't hit yet...
Everyone will tell you yes, you have to have a mic preamp for every mic. I just got a cheapo 2-channel tube pre. Any skepticism I had was demolished. For starters (keep in mind I am very untechnical) you can control the gain of the mic INTO the pre and the level going OUT into your recorder. It livens up your mic sound without overloading your recorder.
Regarding the question of outputs, I've never seen a multi-channel mic preamp that didn't have seperate outputs. They should all have balanced and unbalanced outs. Screw your mixer unless you have your sound/levels TOTALLY DOWN. I dunno how many inputs your recorder has, but if it's got more than two you should use as many as possible to get the most control over your recordings.
Those ART little things are a good cheap tool, cuz you can buy a fuckload for peanuts. Preamps with two channels are plentiful, and when you get into more than 2 channels the price starts rising. As I said I just got a cheapo 2-channel, 2-tube mic preamp (Behringer- OK techheads laugh your ass off but it reviewed better than everything else in the $200 price range) and it is making the recording process much more satisfying. If your recorder only has 2 channels though, you could get away with just your mixer if you run stereo out, either through speaker outs. I can't believe there's a mono line out of your mixer! Are you sure it's not a 1/4" TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) Stereo headphone output?

Hope I helped a little bit. I'm sure someone else who's actually qualified to give advice will be piping in soon. Good luck

I only have a minute because I'm at work but I'll try to point you in the right direction. First what are you recording to and what mixer do you have? I would probably say learn how to use your gear first before getting new stuff and based on your post it sounds like you have yet to really understand some basic fundamentals.

Yes you need a pre for most mics. The preamp on your console should be fine for now. Get additional pres when you have a need. As for a tube mic pre, why do you want one or thing you need one? A proper tube design usually is costly to make. I'm not ragging on those Art pres but that's not a true tube pre. With that said they are fine. Not good really good pres which is why I think you should stick with your console. They can be cool on an aux send but still very seldom.

Know about your setup will help me formulate some workarounds for you so let me know about your gear and I'll respond with a more insightful post.

Yeah, I probably came off sounding kind of clueless... The line out is a 1/4 stereo. I'm using a Yamaha AW16G 16 Track Digital Multitrack, the mixer is a 4 Channel Yamaha Powered Mixer.

I think I need a mic pre because I want more control over mic gain. The preamps on the recorder don't really cut it. They work well, but the tracks need a good amount of EQ to "full-up" the sound and I have to set them just right in order to avoid noise by overloading them. The mixer works at "beefing up" the sound, but only if its one track that I want to record at that time. I'd like to control mic gain on multiple mics which are sent to multiple tracks on the recorder, so that I can achieve "presence" of the mic'ed sounds without overloading my recorder and be able to adjust the sound coming from each mic after I've recorded them (which I obviously cant do with the mixer, since all the mics are being sent to one output, which goes to one track on my recorder). I think a decent mic pre could fix this problem. I'd like to think that I know my gear well enough to eliminate everything that will totally sabotage a mix and that I know how to get the best out of it.

Also, I wont knock Behringer stuff. Not expensive and usually does a decent job at what you need it to do. In some ways, their products can be flawed, but the price is right.

WoundedFoot wrote:Yeah, I probably came off sounding kind of clueless... The line out is a 1/4 stereo. I'm using a Yamaha AW16G 16 Track Digital Multitrack, the mixer is a 4 Channel Yamaha Powered Mixer.

I think I need a mic pre because I want more control over mic gain. The preamps on the recorder don't really cut it. They work well, but the tracks need a good amount of EQ to "full-up" the sound and I have to set them just right in order to avoid noise by overloading them. The mixer works at "beefing up" the sound, but only if its one track that I want to record at that time. I'd like to control mic gain on multiple mics which are sent to multiple tracks on the recorder, so that I can achieve "presence" of the mic'ed sounds without overloading my recorder and be able to adjust the sound coming from each mic after I've recorded them (which I obviously cant do with the mixer, since all the mics are being sent to one output, which goes to one track on my recorder). I think a decent mic pre could fix this problem. I'd like to think that I know my gear well enough to eliminate everything that will totally sabotage a mix and that I know how to get the best out of it.

Also, I wont knock Behringer stuff. Not expensive and usually does a decent job at what you need it to do. In some ways, their products can be flawed, but the price is right.

I'll probably get shouted down for this, but if you have $150, the Behringer T1953 2-channel mic pre is getting me right where I want to be. It's the cheapest 2-channel pre that has a seperate 12AX7 for each channel instead of a shared one that others have(even another one by Behringer). Some say the tubes are more gimmick than anything else as thery are not part of the amplification stage (I think I'm explaining that correctly). This is true of all inexpensive tube pre's I'm afraid. The tubes provide post-gain coloration if I understand it correctly, so they're not always working unless they tube knob is cranked. Still, it's got phase reverse, adjustable hi-pass, and phantom power, and these features are individually controllable for each channel. Any cheap tube pre you get, replace the tubes is what the experts say.

Boombats wrote:

WoundedFoot wrote:Yeah, I probably came off sounding kind of clueless... The line out is a 1/4 stereo. I'm using a Yamaha AW16G 16 Track Digital Multitrack, the mixer is a 4 Channel Yamaha Powered Mixer.

I think I need a mic pre because I want more control over mic gain. The preamps on the recorder don't really cut it. They work well, but the tracks need a good amount of EQ to "full-up" the sound and I have to set them just right in order to avoid noise by overloading them. The mixer works at "beefing up" the sound, but only if its one track that I want to record at that time. I'd like to control mic gain on multiple mics which are sent to multiple tracks on the recorder, so that I can achieve "presence" of the mic'ed sounds without overloading my recorder and be able to adjust the sound coming from each mic after I've recorded them (which I obviously cant do with the mixer, since all the mics are being sent to one output, which goes to one track on my recorder). I think a decent mic pre could fix this problem. I'd like to think that I know my gear well enough to eliminate everything that will totally sabotage a mix and that I know how to get the best out of it.

Also, I wont knock Behringer stuff. Not expensive and usually does a decent job at what you need it to do. In some ways, their products can be flawed, but the price is right.

I'll probably get shouted down for this, but if you have $150, the Behringer T1953 2-channel mic pre is getting me right where I want to be. It's the cheapest 2-channel pre that has a seperate 12AX7 for each channel instead of a shared one that others have(even another one by Behringer). Some say the tubes are more gimmick than anything else as thery are not part of the amplification stage (I think I'm explaining that correctly). This is true of all inexpensive tube pre's I'm afraid. The tubes provide post-gain coloration if I understand it correctly, so they're not always working unless they tube knob is cranked. Still, it's got phase reverse, adjustable hi-pass, and phantom power, and these features are individually controllable for each channel. Any cheap tube pre you get, replace the tubes is what the experts say.

A single EH 12ay7 channel is 180 bucks, that's fairly cheap.

juice wrote:A single EH 12ay7 channel is 180 bucks, that's fairly cheap.

That look pretty nice. Still only one channel though.

Boombats wrote:

juice wrote:A single EH 12ay7 channel is 180 bucks, that's fairly cheap.

That look pretty nice. Still only one channel though.

Word is they sound pretty badass, though.

I still don't understand why you want a "tube" pre?!? The Groove Tubes Brick is the cheapest commercially available "real" tube pre I know of and it's $400 street. I think you have the misconception that tubes = good, fat, thick, vintage [insert positive adjective] etc... A tube design is one approach, depending on how it's implemented can acheive a wide variety of results, none of which are guaranted good or bad because of a tube nor better/worse than solid state.

I have never used the Yamaha unit you have but I took a look at it and it appears it has 2 mic pres built into it. I'm guessing you aren't going to get anything much better than what's already onboard for under $100. I also don't understand what you mean by "achieve "presence" of the mic'ed sounds without overloading my recorder and be able to adjust the sound coming from each mic after I've recorded them".

It sounds like you want utilize the other 6 inputs on your recorder. If you need a bunch of pres SM Pro Audio makes (or used to atleast) an 8-channel pre (sorry no tubes) that will give you individual control over each pre. If you only need two more channels I'm sure whatever you find under $100 will probably be about the same (and probably not that good or better than the yamaha pres either).

Good equipment costs money for a reason. I would recommend saving some cash and purchasing something worthwhile down the road. I don't know what mics you have but I would consider upgrading/expanding those before you get any nice pres. I think you need to learn about gain staging as well. Also note, good equipment does not guarantee good results. If you don't know how to properly work it you'll still won't achieve the results you are after.

Antero wrote:

Boombats wrote:

juice wrote:A single EH 12ay7 channel is 180 bucks, that's fairly cheap.

That look pretty nice. Still only one channel though.

Word is they sound pretty badass, though.

I've said several times here that I love the sound of my EH LPB2ube...and am quite disappointed in its fragile build quality. The 12AY7 pre is the same box, so be careful with it.

Also, trash_treasury_12 has a good point: just because it has a tube in it doesn't automatically make it good, and a lot of cheap "tube" pres run with very low heater voltage on the tube, which means it'll sound like a caricature of real tube gear. For that matter, transformers and capacitors in your signal path color the sound just as much if not more than tubes themselves, if they're being run within their specified ranges. If anything, what matter are the design of the circuit and the quality of the components in the signal path. And good components don't necessarily come cheap.

That said, why not build a box for one of the little Op-Amp Labs solid state pres? You'd have to assemble a DC power supply (remember that more voltage means more headroom before clipping), but the pre itself comes in a package you can plug into an octal socket. You're just wiring up the I/O, building the supply, and putting the box together.