Premier Rock Forum

Hello,

I am new to these forums, but I am somewhat experienced in "audiophile" playback gear.
My question is- how come bigger studios do not use speakers that are time-and phase accurate? Is getting maximum spl's more important in most settings?
Time and phase accurate speakers are what I use at home, and they can deliver an output signal that resembles their input signal.
A speaker like a B&W cannot (but they can play much louder).
Actually almost no speakers can, except for Vandersteen, Theil and Meadowlark.
Doesnt it make sense that studios should be on the frontier of change and advancement? Instead, many people I know have playback systems that embarrass studios for listenability and resolve.

Also, I was wondering if many (any) pro-audio companies have begun making electronics that have no global negative feedback loops?

I have found products that use no global feedback to sound significantly better in playback products than products that use feedback, generally speaking.

Shouldn't pro audio be doing something to advance the quality of the signal?

Is there desire in the pro audio world to make gear that delivers maximum sonic potential, even if that means changing the way studios listen?

I understand sometimes that delivering effects on the sound is what is called for, but a fairly natural drum sound (like is found on "at action park") is so much more effective for most rock and roll.


ok, i will stop the ramble now.

any comments?




willie

I personally think that hifi is an interesting topic.

You have a very good point. One thing that amazes me is that hifi buffs will pay £500 for a set of interconnects for a CD player, when the original recordings were made with microphones which passed through £1 per metre mic cable. Line levels would be more susceptible to problems than the low levels of microphones. Why aren't balanced interconnects standard on hifi? - Too many componenets involved?

People will still use standards which they believe "sound good" such as Yamaha NS10 monitor speakers and Shure SM57 microphones in a recording environment. Often if people like the sound of something, they will just stick with it, if it works.

What is "global feedback"? I have not come across this term before? I assume you are referring to amplifier design?

Rodabod wrote:I personally think that hifi is an interesting topic.

You have a very good point. One thing that amazes me is that hifi buffs will pay £500 for a set of interconnects for a CD player, when the original recordings were made with microphones which passed through £1 per metre mic cable. Line levels would be more susceptible to problems than the low levels of microphones. Why aren't balanced interconnects standard on hifi? - Too many componenets involved?

People will still use standards which they believe "sound good" such as Yamaha NS10 monitor speakers and Shure SM57 microphones in a recording environment. Often if people like the sound of something, they will just stick with it, if it works.

What is "global feedback"? I have not come across this term before? I assume you are referring to amplifier design?

Balanced interconnects DO come on the best components.
The UK for some reason prefers the use of single ended (rca) connections.
When used properly, a balanced design will result in 6db less noise than a single ended design. Some components are not truly balanced, even if they have the XLR inputs, so you have to be careful in selection.
The amplifiers I use are totally balanced, the dedicated phono preamp I use is single ended at the input, and converts the signal to balanced circuitry after the first gain stage.

Global feedback is a process used to stabilize circuits, It sends some of the signal output from the circuit to the beginning to stabilize it.
I do not understand the exact process, but I understand it was developed for the phone company to stabilize circuits over distances.
Feedback also helps to keep amplifier specifications looking better and reduces the THD spec.
Almost all components use it, and it degrades sound quality, by altering timing relationships of the signal.
It is just now being understood that the problems feedback causes (most notably time smear) is more audible than a reduction in distortion on paper.

Using regular speakers it is harder to hear these differences.
Through time and phase accurate speakers it is far more noticable.
The best audio components now use no negative global feedback, it improves imaging and overall sound quality.

The only potential downside is that it reduced the "slam" that an amplifier has. I think that the slam is a distortion artifact, but not veryone agrees on that.

the system I use is:

Vandersteen 5A speakers
Theta Citadel solid state monoblock amplifiers
Aesthetix IO tube dedicated phono preamp with dual mono power supplies
Linn LP12 fully decked out with latest upgrades
AudioQuest Sky interconnects (2m)
AudioQuest Everest speaker cables (2 foot double bi-wire pairs)
Solid Tech Rack of Silence racks


willie

wberdan wrote:The amplifiers I use are totally balanced, the dedicated phono preamp I use is single ended at the input, and converts the signal to balanced circuitry after the first gain stage.

Linn LP12 fully decked out with latest upgrades

Would it not be more sensible to have a balanced phono preamp rather than a balanced power amp? Since phono level signals are very small, they will be more affected by noise and interference relatively. Maybe you turntable output is only unbalanced though.

Linn are based in Glasgow! That's cool. My friend has visited their factory and demo'd their equipment against well known manufacturers. Top quality stuff!

Incidentally, they are making monitor loudspeakers now. I know someone who owns a set of prototype monitors that they made. Superb sound.

Rodabod wrote:

wberdan wrote:The amplifiers I use are totally balanced, the dedicated phono preamp I use is single ended at the input, and converts the signal to balanced circuitry after the first gain stage.

Linn LP12 fully decked out with latest upgrades

Would it not be more sensible to have a balanced phono preamp rather than a balanced power amp? Since phono level signals are very small, they will be more affected by noise and interference relatively. Maybe you turntable output is only unbalanced though.

Linn are based in Glasgow! That's cool. My friend has visited their factory and demo'd their equipment against well known manufacturers. Top quality stuff!

Incidentally, they are making monitor loudspeakers now. I know someone who owns a set of prototype monitors that they made. Superb sound.

Ideally, it would be best to have a totally balanced system.
There are very few truly balanced phono stages right now, and you need to rewire tonearm cables to accomodate them.
Phono Cartridges are balanced, but very few are from the tonearm cable. With a suspended turntable you would also need two more conductors running on the cable (I believe) , so you stand greater chance of screwing up the suspension.
The Aesthetix IO, as I was told by the designer, would not sound as good if it was truly balanced because the use of more tubes in the first stage of gain. I trust his judgement, as he worked for Theta Digital for 10 years, and has produced some of the best truly balanced preamp gear available for his current company, Aesthetix.
So, ideally yes- you would want a total balanced system- but that is not the only consideration. Faithfully taking care of the signal while providing good sound are the most important.
You are right on that the signal from the turntable is very delicate and must be kept from noise.

PS. A company called Ayre makes truly balanced solid state phono preamps that are excellent.

Linn makes great products and has always worked to advance the state of the art in LP playback. Their speakers are great, but not the same as a design that is time and phase accurate.

Take care,



willie