and more importantly design is not art...

GuyMercier wrote:and more importantly design is not art...

bollocks! whether you design a car or design a painting of a car, as far as i'm concerned it's art if you or anyone else thinks it is. it's functional art, which is great in my opinion, but it's certainly art.

if a photograph of a kid standing next to a puddle is art, and a fucking ferrari isn't, then i don't know what to say about that.

and dylan, your position that a car is not a work of art because the artist has given up rights to it... that seems diametrically opposed to a notion that mayfair had suggested, which i wholly agree with, that art lies not in the objects and the ownership of them, so much as in their creation, in the process, in the concept.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:and dylan, your position that a car is not a work of art because the artist has given up rights to it... that seems diametrically opposed to a notion that mayfair had suggested, which i wholly agree with, that art lies not in the objects and the ownership of them, so much as in their creation, in the process, in the concept.

That wasn't my position at all - AT ALL! I was talking about the reproduction rights (per your post) and trying to answer your claim of "everybody owes somebody something when they create something". I didn't say a car wasn't a piece of art. I said a car didn't need permission to be photographed and that the creator gave up his or her rights to the design when they took the job at ________(insert auto company here). An artist giving or selling the rights doesn't make the thing not-art, it just makes it harder for them to be compensated for the creation and publication of their creation.

For the record, I think good design is good art.

GuyMercier wrote:and more importantly design is not art...

Why not?

if you see it with your eyes,it's yours.
if you hear it with your ears it's yours.
i know tis looks like a bad haiku
but it is the truth

toomanyhelicopters wrote:and dylan, your position that a car is not a work of art because the artist has given up rights to it... that seems diametrically opposed to a notion that mayfair had suggested, which i wholly agree with, that art lies not in the objects and the ownership of them, so much as in their creation, in the process, in the concept.

Wait, wait... that is not what I was saying. When I was posting earlier I was refering to a specific kind of art; conceptual art. By the way, I am actually not a fan of conceptual art on the whole but I do see it's merrits. With concept art, the art does not lie in the object but rather the dialog and reaction around the object. I was saying this because it seemed people were viewing the ready-mades and the like as easy and pointless (i.e. a snow shovel hanging on the wall). My point was that their purpose was to set art (and politics, etc) in a mirror and create discussion.

I do not think that was what Picasso or Mattisee or Miro or Van Gogh had in mind when they created. Just as there are many ways of creating music, so as with art. It is too general a term to generalize motives.

LAD wrote:

GuyMercier wrote:and more importantly design is not art...

Why not?

ah
fuck
gotta answer that
awright


because design is craft
like record engineering is not art, playing the music is

see ?

GuyMercier wrote:because design is craft
like record engineering is not art, playing the music is

see ?

so how come everyone's home-recorded records don't sound mind-blowingly amazing?

Jon wrote:

GuyMercier wrote:because design is craft
like record engineering is not art, playing the music is

see ?

so how come everyone's home-recorded records don't sound mind-blowingly amazing?

Daniel Johnston is an artist, though he'd likely be a less interesting one if he recorded at EA.

Shellac would still be quite good if they recorded straight to 4-track.

Didn't the band Bush record at EA? That shit, from what I heard, stank.


It's fine to talk about "the art of" buttering toast, or "the art of" cunnilingus, or "the art of" managing a small-press or record label. And there may be an art to it or some art in it, but I think the craft/art binary holds up pretty well. I'm with Guy on this one.