cjh wrote:

It is a disaster.

He has no record of concern for development or the world’s poor. He is a hawk. A warmonger.

What does this say other than ‘We’re in charge’

.

It's also a polite and face saving way to remove Wolfowitz. This is not a promotion. Being the number 2 man at the pentagon and helping to plan and implement the invasion and occupation of Iraq is a lot bigger job than heading the World Bank. People like Wolfowitz don't leave these jobs by their own choice. Bush can't just fire Wolfowitz, because it would be a public admission of fault or failed planning. So Wolfowitz takes the "fall" (granted taking the fall is easier when you have a great paying prestigious job to fall onto) and appeases several people in the pentagon, congress, or the administration. This exact thing has happened before. LBJ "punished" Robert McNamara for his failures in Vietnam by arranging the exact same job for him in 1968. http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/o ... 4f2be.html

This might be a good thing. Wolfowitz is often credited with being one of the main driving forces behind the invasion. Hopefully, this signals an administration shift in thinking. Also, I think the glass is half full.

cursedby11 wrote:Curse Mr. Bush! I wish we could get our draft dodger back.......

?!?! No president has been more of a draft dodger than Bush, so I'm not sure what this means.

In case you've been living in a cave, America is a Wartime nation. We always have been ever since we were colonized. If you don't like it go cry about it or move out.

I like the double standard here. When Republicans don't like America, do they cry about it? Do they move out? No, they take shit over and make changes. For some reason, Democrats aren't supposed to do the same? Even accepting your dubious proposition that America has always been a "Wartime nation", that doesn't mean it always has to be, and it doesn't mean that we don't have the right and duty to morally oppose hawks and warmongers like Wolfowitz. I'm glad you oppose him on other grounds, but it's completely legitimate to oppose him on whatever grounds, as he is a despicable man through and through.

cursedby11 wrote:
In case you've been living in a cave, America is a Wartime nation. We always have been ever since we were colonized.

First, what does "America is a Wartime nation" mean?

Do you mean that 'America' likes to start and fights wars? You seem to be saying that your nation is at its best fighting wars, regardless of who intitiated them, why they're being waged, and who's dying, etc.

Is this what you're saying?


Second, when was America colonized? I had no idea.





Third, your post reminded me of this comic.

Since Wolfie is part of the Project for a New American Century (http://www.newamericancentury.org/), it only makes sense to extend their sphere of influence even deeper into the world.

It makes sense, if you're one of them. No other alternative really, when you have that kind of agenda.

I wish BONO would have got the job.

cursedby11 wrote:If you don't like it go cry about it or move out.

Wow, I thought I'd seen the end of the "Well if you don't like how our country has been overrun by rich warmongering zealots through astonishing consolidated media control while decimating the economy in favour of CEO profits, just leave..." arguments, but obviously not.

Should we move to the level of, "I know what you are, but what am I?" next?

My penis shrunk from your last statement stewie. So how do you propose changing this condition we are currently in? Wasting your time protesting in front of city hall? Joining a socialist group to feel that you are a part of something? This IS a capitalist country, and i may not like that but, I'd rather be here than almost anywhere else in the world.

Liberal vs. conservative debates tire me because our government wants to create a destinction. The bottom line is that we all sleep in the same beds and all have our own aggendas. Politicians will always be insidious so I simply don't trust them. what am i going to do about it? Nothing because it doesn't deserve my time and energy. I am also apparently by myself here, so feel free to continue to stone me with words.

[quoteFirst, what does "America is a Wartime nation" mean?[/quote] ...LAD

I'm talking about our constitution and defending our soil if attacked, like it was repeatedly. I'm talking about a worldwide Islamic extremest movement against us based on jealousy and hatred. We live a pretty nice life here compared to the rest of the world. There is a logical reason for others to want it as well who don't have it.

Windton churchill states.....“Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time. - Winston Churchill, 1947

Democracy is the best form that we know as of now, so that's why I don't complain. In fifty years, we'll see how far our current preventional measures of war will take us. Democracy will do some good in the middle east.

cursedby11 wrote:My penis shrunk from your last statement stewie. So how do you propose changing this condition we are currently in? Wasting your time protesting in front of city hall? Joining a socialist group to feel that you are a part of something? This IS a capitalist country, and i may not like that but, I'd rather be here than almost anywhere else in the world.

Liberal vs. conservative debates tire me because our government wants to create a destinction. The bottom line is that we all sleep in the same beds and all have our own aggendas. Politicians will always be insidious so I simply don't trust them. what am i going to do about it? Nothing because it doesn't deserve my time and energy. I am also apparently by myself here, so feel free to continue to stone me with words.

Plenty of positive changes have been wrought in this country and elsewhere by people who stood up, by themselves or in groups, and did some of the very activities you belittle. If you don't want to participate, fine. I don't participate as much as I could myself. But your cynicism isn't supported by the facts.

First, what does "America is a Wartime nation" mean?

...LAD

I'm talking about our constitution and defending our soil if attacked, like it was repeatedly. I'm talking about a worldwide Islamic extremest movement against us based on jealousy and hatred.

OK, but we're talking about Paul Wolfowitz, one of the foremost architects of our war against Iraq. An aggressive war, a war of choice, against a country that has never attacked the United States and was not part of (in fact was an enemy of) the Islamic extremist movement that did attack us. It's a tired analogy, but it holds true, that responding to 9/11 by attacking Iraq is like responding to Pearl Harbor by attacking Mexico.

We live a pretty nice life here compared to the rest of the world. There is a logical reason for others to want it as well who don't have it.

Osama bin Laden et al. do not want anything like our way of life. They mainly want us to stop interfering in the Islamic world. More broadly, they would probably like to make us suffer. But they do not want democracy whiskey sexy. Those who do want a better way of life do not attack America. They either move to America or they, how did you put it? "Wast[e their] time protesting in front of city hall? Join... a socialist group to feel that [they] are a part of something?"

Windton churchill states.....“Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time. - Winston Churchill, 1947

Democracy is the best form that we know as of now, so that's why I don't complain.

Democracy is the best form that I know of, so that's why I do complain, because complaining is central to a healthy Democracy.

In fifty years, we'll see how far our current preventional measures of war will take us.

I don't see how. We'll only see what happened, and we'll have to guess at what would have happened. As of now, I have no reason to believe that our "preventional" war against Iraq prevented anything at all. It certainly didn't prevent war with Iraq.

Democracy will do some good in the middle east.

I think that's something we can all hope for.

cursedby11 wrote:We all have our own aggendas.

Hey!

Leggo my aggenda!

Osama bin Laden et al. do not want anything like our way of life.

I think you're correct in that assumption. I think they'd rather dicatate.

It's a tired analogy, but it holds true, that responding to 9/11 by attacking Iraq is like responding to Pearl Harbor by attacking Mexico.

I guess we should have stayed out of WW2 then, just like we should be staying out of the middle east right?

Plenty of positive changes have been wrought in this country and elsewhere by people who stood up, by themselves or in groups, and did some of the very activities you belittle. If you don't want to participate, fine. I don't participate as much as I could myself. But your cynicism isn't supported by the facts.

fair enough, but people should strategize a new way to impose their ideas on the US. It doesn't seem to be working does it?

There will always be wars as long as people disagree. The way I see it, the earth is like a teenager's pimpled face.... by suppressing a war here, another one will pop-up somewhere else. That's why socialism doesn't work. The world will continue in this international anarchistic state until it ends; That's reality.

The way I see it, the earth is like a teenager's pimpled face.... by suppressing a war here, another one will pop-up somewhere else.

i don't think that is how acne works.