Garth wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:19 pm I guess another important question is what equipment do you already have? Do you have a mixer? Any power amps already? Sometimes it's more cost-effective to build-out around stuff you or your bandmates already have.

Right now there's a used Crowe XLS602 on the used guitarcenter site for $150. I've used these quite a bit, they're absolutely fine.
Also on used page there's a pair of Yamaha SM12IV for $99 each. Same applies w/ these, I've used them quite a bit, they're absolutely fine. You can use them on sticks or as floor monitors.
Mixer depends a bit on you, but you should be able to get one of those little 2-channel Mackie Mix8 mixers for $80 new and if you want reverb, use the aux send to a reverb pedal you aren't using or just get a zoom something or another as those are super cheap.

That gets you going for < $500.

Garth thanks so much for your thoughts and recs, much appreciated.

I dont really have much extra laying around power amp wise, all I have is an old 120watt ss guitar head. I DO have a small 4 channel Mackie mixer.

bishopdante wrote: EAW, meyersound, l'acoustic or d&b are the good stuff.

Yes, yes they are. Stoked to mix on d&b stuff at work. They are also fairly cost-prohibitive. Feels a bit like you're maybe recommending a new driver to go out and buy a Bentley or a brand new guitar player to buy a new Les Paul Standard.

bishopdante wrote: There are some quite nice cheap effects units for live vocalists which are under exploited. A korg kaos pad is worth having a mess around with. Effects aren't only for guitar players.

Agreed - going a bit further, I'm kind of a fan of singers who have their own vocal-dedicated in-line stompbox-style effects units so I don't have to have aggravating conversations about what a singer wants their vocal effects to sound like. This also allows the singer to select which songs (or parts of songs) are going to have what effect and how much. The part I'm leery about is that I could easily imagine someone going wildly overboard w/ this and the sound tech not getting an accurate picture of what's going to happen during soundcheck (if a soundcheck even happens).

bishopdante wrote: It's well worth buying a good mic that's a modern live condenser, rather than an SM58.

Eh. Maybe. I still think a good dynamic is a better bang-for-buck option and will be less headache-y than a live condenser mic (which can cost easily 2-5x as much) - although admittedly many of them have gotten a lot better w/ rejecting feedback and able to take a fall when your bass/guitar player (or you) inadvertently but inevitably knocks over your mic stand. Live condensers have come a long way, sure, but I still tend to think of them for like star vocalists singing to backing tracks and using in-ears.

I think the biggest drawback of live condenser mics is that their sensitivity is not good for all singers and styles. You could easily go on a guitar-player like tone quest in search of the perfect mic, but the hardest part about choosing a vocal mic now is that with covid I doubt you can just go to a music store and just test them out. And online reviews clearly a mixed bag. Might be easiest/smartest to just stick w/ industry standards and call it good for now.

Hate to dig up this old thread, but I have gone ahead and got the EV ZLX12Ps (rad!).

Now I am overwhelming myself with mixer options. Right now, all I need the mixer to do is plug in two vocal mics, have onboard reverb, and sound alright with the powered speakers that I am using as floor monitors in front myself and the bass player. That is my NEED.

I would like not to totally box myself in, and would want the mixer to be able to also, be able to expand if I added another speaker or two (right now two, but maybe add another for a drum monitor; 2 mains and the ability to do two monitors as well), I also like the idea of fucking around and getting a headphones amp and the 3 of us having wired headphone like in the studio to see how that is? I like to fuck around and learn, and all my previous experience with sound in a practice space was a Shure Vocal Master powered PA head and some passive speakers we hung, so I want something with enough options I can sorta grow into it some, without getting too much. I was thinking maybe a Mackie DFX-12?

I'd like to be able to learn more about making a practice space sound decent since my wife gave me the all good to turn our basement into the band practice spot.

Owen wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:25 pm Hate to dig up this old thread, but I have gone ahead and got the EV ZLX12Ps (rad!).

Now I am overwhelming myself with mixer options. Right now, all I need the mixer to do is plug in two vocal mics, have onboard reverb, and sound alright with the powered speakers that I am using as floor monitors in front myself and the bass player. That is my NEED.

I would like not to totally box myself in, and would want the mixer to be able to also, be able to expand if I added another speaker or two (right now two, but maybe add another for a drum monitor; 2 mains and the ability to do two monitors as well), I also like the idea of fucking around and getting a headphones amp and the 3 of us having wired headphone like in the studio to see how that is? I like to fuck around and learn, and all my previous experience with sound in a practice space was a Shure Vocal Master powered PA head and some passive speakers we hung, so I want something with enough options I can sorta grow into it some, without getting too much. I was thinking maybe a Mackie DFX-12?

I'd like to be able to learn more about making a practice space sound decent since my wife gave me the all good to turn our basement into the band practice spot.

Coupla things:
So with those speakers you got (congrats, glad you dig'm), you're not limited by numbers: You can chain together about as many as you want. Just need another mic cable, & they'd be on the same mix.

That DFX-12 gives you pretty much everything you're looking for i think at a really good price, but I can't speak to how good it sounds? The only thing I noticed is that the graphic eq on it is...well...about worthless as far as pulling out feedback. You maybe could use it to help tweak for the room a bit? but you'll be better off w/ acoustic treatment for sure. Regardless, that's probably totally fine, fits your needs and if it ends up not working, you won't be out that much money.

Not sure that mixer would really be helpful for getting a headphones mix if you wanted 3 separate mixes.

If it were me, I'd probably try to find a good condition used Allen & Heath MixWizard, but that's also likely more than you would ever need. Always been a big fan, they punch above their weight I think. The preamps sound a lot better than the low end Mackies IMO. I used a weird prototype model to record with back in the day and listening to the old recordings, I'm surprised how good they sound. IIRC, the mixwizards will give you six aux sends which you could use to send everyone a different monitor (or headphone) mix or whatever + a lot more quasi-parametric eq options per channel which can be really helpful if you end up using it in a live setting.

bishopdante wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:27 pm EAW, meyersound, l'acoustic or d&b are the good stuff.

This is the most ridiculous suggestions for "recommend me a PA for my band" you could possibly make. 4 companies that design some of the most expensive live sound reinforcement systems you can buy. Get a grip. What's he gonna do, hang a line array form the ceiling of his 12x10 practice space? This dude isn't in Motley Crue. Just get a good pair of Powered speakers, and a decent digital mixer like a QU series. You will be fine. Add a single powered sub with ample power if you wanna get thumpy. You DO NOT need stereo subs.

Garth wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:05 pm
If it were me, I'd probably try to find a good condition used Allen & Heath MixWizard, but that's also likely more than you would ever need. Always been a big fan, they punch above their weight I think. The preamps sound a lot better than the low end Mackies IMO. I used a weird prototype model to record with back in the day and listening to the old recordings, I'm surprised how good they sound. IIRC, the mixwizards will give you six aux sends which you could use to send everyone a different monitor (or headphone) mix or whatever + a lot more quasi-parametric eq options per channel which can be really helpful if you end up using it in a live setting.

You mean like this guy?

https://reverb.com/item/47091342-allen- ... w9G8LXhi-s

I think I could swing a couple hundred more (vs the Mackie) to get something that I could do more with. That said, I feel like I "get" the Mackie and maybe start there and get the swing of things and see what my needs are. I am used to garbage sound at practice (in the past), so anything will be an improvement, hell just plugging an SM58 into the EVs straight already sounds better than what I pictured.

Kniferide wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:29 pm

bishopdante wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:27 pm EAW, meyersound, l'acoustic or d&b are the good stuff.

This dude isn't in Motley Crue.

Yeah, I only got room for the spinning drum kit at the moment.

I had a MixWizard for 15 years, the last 6 or so as a practice space mixer. It was flexible and reliable, but way overkill for a practice space. If I were you I’d just get a little Mackie or Behringer mixer with built in reverb and call it a day. The little Yamaha mixers have compressors on the mic channels, which may be useful. For a tiny jam space with amps and cymbals blasting 1-4kHz at you, your mixer’s sound quality won’t make any difference. IMO having modern powered speakers is the right place to invest, and next thing is a vocal mic that’s a step better than a 57/58. I’d get a little graphic EQ maybe. I had one at my last space and it was a help being able to notch out feedback frequencies.

twelvepoint wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:25 am I had a MixWizard for 15 years, the last 6 or so as a practice space mixer. It was flexible and reliable, but way overkill for a practice space. If I were you I’d just get a little Mackie or Behringer mixer with built in reverb and call it a day. The little Yamaha mixers have compressors on the mic channels, which may be useful. For a tiny jam space with amps and cymbals blasting 1-4kHz at you, your mixer’s sound quality won’t make any difference. IMO having modern powered speakers is the right place to invest, and next thing is a vocal mic that’s a step better than a 57/58. I’d get a little graphic EQ maybe. I had one at my last space and it was a help being able to notch out feedback frequencies.

+1 to all of this. The A&H is what I would get...but I'm also a dope for all of this stuff and get a little carried away sometimes. Owen, that Mackie you mentioned way earlier would probably be just fine and I think you're nailing it when you say you feel like you "get" it.

The graphic suggestion is a good one too - acoustically treat your room, find good placement and if you're still having feedback issues, a better mic w/ a tighter pattern may help but after that, a graphic eq to notch out problem freqs should get you the rest of the way.

If you are thinking multiple mixes (drum monitor, headphones, etc) you are going to want a mixer that has a pre-fader aux send for each mix/endpoint. That’s probably where you’ll run into the most issues with small budget mixers: limited number of aux sends.

The MixWizard you linked to has two pre-fader, two post-fader, and two switchable. So, potentially four additional mixes beyond the main mix.

If you’re thinking of going crazy with the mixes, you might want to consider a matrix or monitor mixer, which essentially eschews a “main” mix for a large quantity of separate mix paths. These were intended for live sound setups where each performer had a distinct monitor mix, but there’s no reason why this isn’t perfectly applicable to a rehearsal setup. There’s a MixWizard monitor mixer that has 16 mic ins and 12 mono (6 stereo) outputs, which would probably handle everything you’d want to throw at it.

For your reverb, if you’re sending multiple signals to it (eg multiple vocals), put it on a post-fader aux send. If it’s just for a single source, you can alternatively put it in the insert path, provided it has a wet/dry mix.

Truthfully, the best advice I can come up with is to learn how to read and understand mixer block diagrams…just about every mixer’s manual (even the cheap ones) will have a block diagram somewhere, and it’s the easiest way to determine if a particular model’s feature set is right for what you’re looking to accomplish.