Gramsci wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 2:54 pm To honest, the frankly pathetic response from some our non American politicians is genuinely disgusting.

And that is the thing that I think Lu should contend with. This is not solely an American issue. If the EU toadies are happily kissing the ring, including military action on Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia (now left holding the bag), etc. etc...happily buying all our American weapons and inviting American bases on EU soil (a 2023 defense accord grants extended U.S. access to bases in mainland Denmark)...what can be said? You are ACTIVELY supporting our aggression. That's before we review the storied history of European imperialism which still defines the world today, including famously the history of Croatia and the British hand in bringing Tito to power.

I think Lu is frustrated that some people are believing the bogus 'drugs' propaganda, even if only to a small extent, when A) there is zero evidence to back it up, and B) even the DEA have said there is no drug running from Venezuela to the US.

Curry Pervert wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 7:13 pm I think Lu is frustrated that some people are believing the bogus 'drugs' propaganda, even if only to a small extent, when A) there is zero evidence to back it up, and B) even the DEA have said there is no drug running from Venezuela to the US.

Who said they believe it? One person, maybe said they might. But since no one mentioned Greenland we're all beyond reason.

We have definitely fucked around. I wonder if the rest of the world ganged up on the US we'd "find out."

enframed wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 8:06 pm

Curry Pervert wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 7:13 pm I think Lu is frustrated that some people are believing the bogus 'drugs' propaganda, even if only to a small extent, when A) there is zero evidence to back it up, and B) even the DEA have said there is no drug running from Venezuela to the US.

Who said they believe it? One person, maybe said they might. But since no one mentioned Greenland we're all beyond reason.

We have definitely fucked around. I wonder if the rest of the world ganged up on the US we'd "find out."

Also, I'll own that I acknowledged the high possibility that Venezuela has some coke passing through it. The first important point is it doesn't fucking matter. I don't imagine there's a single person on here that would feel a country having illegal drugs excuses military action of any kind. The whole concept of legality with substances is problematic to begin with.

At any rate, I appreciate your efforts FM Curry.

losthighway wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 8:36 pmAlso, I'll own that I acknowledged the high possibility that Venezuela has some coke passing through it.

What does this even mean? What area doesn’t have coke passing through it? If the Maduro as drug dealer line was anything but a crock of shit lie they could have saved the gas and invaded Fort Bragg instead. They didn’t go down there to catch a fucking drug dealer.

llllllllllllllllllll wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 9:26 pm

losthighway wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 8:36 pmAlso, I'll own that I acknowledged the high possibility that Venezuela has some coke passing through it.

What does this even mean? What area doesn’t have coke passing through it? If the Maduro as drug dealer line was anything but a crock of shit lie they could have saved the gas and invaded Fort Bragg instead. They didn’t go down there to catch a fucking drug dealer.

Listen to the BBC podcast Gramsci shared. There's coke in that government. As you're suggesting there's coke everywhere. We don't need to wish that Venezuelan officials don't have coke money to give them moral standing. There is a kernel of truth in every lie.

No, they didn't go down there to catch a drug dealer. But they latched onto any justification they could to do it. I don't understand the agonizing over this detail. It doesn't change anything about how problematic this is. It does nothing to make US actions more legal.

What adds some actual moral complexity to this is that Maduro is a motherfucker and people are legitimately psyched to be rid of him. I personally know Venezuelans who celebrate his downfall. But what any observant person knows is being rid of one bastard in no way guarantees an upgrade for the average person living there. Latin American history is rife with those lateral and often downward exchanges of leadership.

losthighway wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 9:53 pm No, they didn't go down there to catch a drug dealer. But they latched onto any justification they could to do it. I don't understand the agonizing over this detail. It doesn't change anything about how problematic this is. It does nothing to make US actions more legal.

I think people focus on this detail because it's the backbone of the US justification as to why they did this. You're right, it doesn't make the actions more legal, but it makes the whole thing easier to sell to the public - many of whom don't really care about legality.

We all know Lu is a good guy and a long standing memeber here.

I think he's trying to ask us "where does it end?" Greenland next? and who's going to stop this bullshit... and when? and how?

He's looking at the bigger picture than just Venezuela.

That's just my simple take on it..

*ducks for cover when Lu yells at me*

joe_lmr wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 3:40 pm Lu, every single person posting in here is against the invasion and Maduro's kidnapping. How on earth are you inferring the opposite?

Joe, any mention of drugs in this case is just an unserious attempt at rationalizing the indefensible. I hope this further explains my initial stance.

zorg wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 3:46 pm That's before we review the storied history of European imperialism which still defines the world today, including famously the history of Croatia and the British hand in bringing Tito to power.

This is a really bad attempt at revisionist history and if you say this with a straight face to anyone over here, people will make fun of you.

We do learn our and world history over here really seriously. For grades and shit.