emmanuelle cunt wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 9:17 am It's really interesting and puzzling to me that stating that Russia is very much a threat is being called a "anti Russian propaganda" even though Kremlin has ben openly hostile towards all the countries of the former soviet block rejecting their (and ours, as I'm Polish) independence and having the approach that the all the countries should accept the idea of mother Russia, are silly not to do so and can and should be penalized for that. That has been their message for decades now and look what they're doing to Ukraine. So how can stating what Russian propaganda says can be called an 'anti russian propangda?

It's actually very simple.

In the world today, we have three real super powers. The United States, the People's Republic of China, and the Russian Federation. All of these powers are more than happy to throw their weight around militarily, economically, and with whatever forms of "electronic intelligence" (e.g., hacking, propaganda, election interference, et c.) they can muster.

Yeah yeah the UK - the UK is an aging prom queen reminiscing about the time when their high school partner won the football game against ger-hyrk-elberg. They are an also ran at this point (and a good example of what the US will be in about 50 years). The only reason the UK and France are still thought of as "super powers" is that they are allied with actual super powers and have nuclear weapons - but they lack the large-scale cultural and economic hegemony that are the other part of the equation. This is why the EU exists in the first place. The UK, France, and the Netherlands - and I suppose post-WWII Germany - are also shining examples of what happens when super powers inevitably alienate their fiefdoms, split up (usually in a serious of violent revolts), and fade into "normal country" levels of power. Russia, despite having gone through part of this process through the fall of the Soviet Union has managed to maintain a stranglehold on influence in its immediate sphere, first through the CIS and then through Putin's blatant aggression - sorry, "appropriate responses to aggression from former satellite states."

These super powers are all inherently bad actors, but having one on your side is a big deal because they have influence and nukes.

The United States is positioning itself as a threat to its so-called allies, while Russia has continued to do what it's done since Putin took over: be an ally to itself. China is building partnerships through economic influence, but make no mistake: their goal is economic and military dominance, because of course it is. That's what everyone else is doing, right? Right. That's just what super powers do. Might makes right and all that.

The burden of being a superpower is that you are obligated to show the rest of the world the correct way to do things, see. Times are just so good, you've got to take on the hardship of making things good for the smaller nations around you - whether they like it or not!

(Since this is the internet and people like making up whatever motivation behind a statement will enrage them the most - I call it ragefic - let me be clear: that last paragraph was sarcasm. The fact that a goddamned kids' show (Avatar: The Last Airbender) explained this sentiment so concisely and effectively tells me that everyone understands this ideology, even if if they pretend not to)

What do you do when you reside in a nation that doesn't have nukes, doesn't have economic hegemony, and isn't yanking the chain on the cultural zeitgeist? You find someone who has all of those and doesn't seem to be directly threatening you, and then you ally yourself with them. And then you convince yourself that they're not really all that bad.

Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia. Oceania will always be at war with Eurasia.

So whenever you read these kind of comments, just remember two things: influence and nukes. Got a nice cadence, no?

Influence and nukes...
Influence and nukes...
Influence and nukes...

TL;DR : Lu's old reliable big bully is being a bully to him now, so he wants new bullies that don't like the old bully. He's unwilling to admit this is the case and is rationalizing. Nevermind that the fact that all of these bullies are, y'know, bullies, which is the whole goddamned problem in the first place. I guess I thought most of us were more self aware than that? Time to expand the ignore list, I suppose.

When the countries that:

- directly border Russia
- were occupied by Russia for most of the 20th century
- continue to feel threats from Russia

warn you that Russia is a threat, and details the reasons why and how that threat exists based on their own experiences...

believe them

ErickC wrote:

emmanuelle cunt wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 9:17 am It's really interesting and puzzling to me that stating that Russia is very much a threat is being called a "anti Russian propaganda" even though Kremlin has ben openly hostile towards all the countries of the former soviet block rejecting their (and ours, as I'm Polish) independence and having the approach that the all the countries should accept the idea of mother Russia, are silly not to do so and can and should be penalized for that. That has been their message for decades now and look what they're doing to Ukraine. So how can stating what Russian propaganda says can be called an 'anti russian propangda?

It's actually very simple.

In the world today, we have three real super powers. The United States, the People's Republic of China, and the Russian Federation. All of these powers are more than happy to throw their weight around militarily, economically, and with whatever forms of "electronic intelligence" (e.g., hacking, propaganda, election interference, et c.) they can muster...

These super powers are all inherently bad actors, but having one on your side is a big deal because they have influence and nukes.

The United States is positioning itself as a threat to its so-called allies, while Russia has continued to do what it's done since Putin took over: be an ally to itself. China is building partnerships through economic influence, but make no mistake: their goal is economic and military dominance, because of course it is. That's what everyone else is doing, right? Right. That's just what super powers do. Might makes right and all that.

I couldn't agree w/this more!

(Throw in a lighter, but up-and-coming side order of India, while you're at it. Modi as Brown Trump; Muslim marginalization; 2025 military escalation against Pakistan; unresolved border fights w/Nepal and China; gross vying w/China for puppet strings to control Nepalese affairs and government.)

And it's all fucking hilarious to me that someone would accuse any of us of being "indoctrinated" Americans or whatever. My dad's American; he can see the cruelty of Ukraine, but he's not too bugged. However, my mother was born in Eastern Europe, grew up in Germany. And culturally, that's where a lot of the "watch the fuck out for Russia, it's a massive, violent empire w/a chip on its shoulder" thought comes from. Most Americans still can't find these places on a map.

I think that b/c American culture is everywhere, often via Hollywood and the internet, people love to point fingers at it b/c they're familiar w/it. And America has been the louder and more self-righteous of the superpowers, so people hold it to a different standard. History is written by winners. But if you grew up w/Russian or Chinese culture and politics shoved down your throat (which most people on this forum absolutely did not), you'll see many of the same flaws, possibly even some bigger ones (say, if you're Uighur and your neighbor's kids' organs got harvested or Grandpa got put in a reeducation camp last year).

Also, nobody tends to give a shit about countries w/which they aren't very familiar. The average Brit, EU citizen, or even the average American hasn't spent much time in the Republic of Georgia or Xinjiang. These are blank spaces on the map for a lot of Westerners and nobody here much thinks about them. But they absolutely count as much any American meddling in the Middle East or South America. They just get way less media coverage (except for perhaps Russia's actions in Ukraine and Syria) and tend to resonate differently w/people. Especially w/...

... a small but vocal chunk of the left that tends to give Russia a pass b/c of its championing of Marxism for such a long time and its actions during WWII. (And the American far right, ironically, who hate Communism but just love the more-recent strongman, authoritarian stuff.) So there's a lot of romance there, some of which is valid, much of which is based more in propaganda than truth. It's like when I've met Asians and Africans who think WWII (stopping the Japanese empire from taking over their country, in this case) or the symbolism of Obama (black president) or even pop culture somehow mitigates American aggression and stupidity.

Am I, personally, very worried about China or Russia fucking up my perch in NYC? Not really. But wow, I sure know a lot of—often liberal or even leftish—immigrant communities who are. Never mind my friends abroad, who live closer to the hostilities.

Empires all gonna act like empires.

A good rule of thumb is to not trust any government with Imperialistic ideations. Begin there and you'll probably be safe. That would encompass those you've mentioned and other bad actors in the "sphere."

Been trying to understand the full implications of not being part of the WHO. I forgot this was happening, but now that we're officially out, it's all over the news. So, we don't have access to their databases and cannot coordinate with global health concerns? It feels stupid beyond belief to leave something that the US created for the safety and security of our own nation, for reasons a guy with brain worms has.

jirbling rake wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 10:40 am When the countries that:

- directly border Russia
- were occupied by Russia for most of the 20th century
- continue to feel threats from Russia

warn you that Russia is a threat, and details the reasons why and how that threat exists based on their own experiences...

believe them

I argued against this way earlier in this thread and I will continue to do so. The reason anybody is scared is because they are fellow instigators who are waging a proxy war and they are being fed propaganda. Remember how the Russians blew up that Nord Stream pipeline for like a few years there? They took the bait from the Americans and UK to antagonize Russia and throw Ukraine to the wolves knowing full well Ukraine would be left holding the bag. What they didn't anticipate is the Americans losing interest in the whole thing, and now they look foolish to their constituents and need to keep justifying their "defense" budgets. At the same time they probably should have realized the Americans are giddy thoughtless creatures. Abandoning Afghanistan wasn't so long ago after all, but let's not get into all the dubious crusading they've joined the US on and they now want credit for. I hope if nothing else this compels the continent to stop the destruction of Ukraine and focus on coexistance without an overseas warlord dictating the terms.

If you want to suss this out properly I would recommend considering why places with zero history of strife with Russia are considering them a threat...its so they can continue to buy F-35s from their "friend" and keep the "world order" going...though this is looking increasingly unfavorable at the moment.

zorg wrote:

jirbling rake wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 10:40 am When the countries that:

- directly border Russia
- were occupied by Russia for most of the 20th century
- continue to feel threats from Russia

warn you that Russia is a threat, and details the reasons why and how that threat exists based on their own experiences...

believe them

I argued against this way earlier in this thread and I will continue to do so. The reason anybody is scared is because they are fellow instigators who are waging a proxy war and they are being fed propaganda. Remember how the Russians blew up that Nord Stream pipeline for like a few years there? They took the bait from the Americans and UK to antagonize Russia and throw Ukraine to the wolves knowing full well Ukraine would be left holding the bag. What they didn't anticipate is the Americans losing interest in the whole thing, and now they look foolish to their constituents and need to keep justifying their "defense" budgets. At the same time they probably should have realized the Americans are giddy thoughtless creatures. Abandoning Afghanistan wasn't so long ago after all, but let's not get into all the dubious crusading they've joined the US on and they now want credit for. I hope if nothing else this compels the continent to stop the destruction of Ukraine and focus on coexistance without an overseas warlord dictating the terms.

If you want to suss this out properly I would recommend considering why places with zero history of strife with Russia are considering them a threat...its so they can continue to buy F-35s from their "friend" and keep the "world order" going...though this is looking increasingly unfavorable at the moment.

You're arguing against the fact that Russia is a threat to any of its neighbors? Those places do have history of strife with Russia. Russia was an occupying army.

Russia attacking Ukraine was wrong. Weapons industries are ghouls. There may be some misinterpretation of talking points on your side or mine.

I see that you're butchering my initial statement, so let us try and rectify this telephone game situation.

So as I said...

Lu Zwei wrote: Wed Jan 21, 2026 2:08 pm OK, that was a lot of words to say nothing significantly different from what I said, so let us try again.

I said that no one in the western EU does fear Russia. That is a statement that you can confirm by googling yourself.

No motherfucking Frenchmen is fearing what will Putin do to them because he will do jack shit. I agree that all the bordering countries have the built in fear of invasion from birth, but that will NEVER happen. He can kinda posture and try and pretend to, but that dude is losing 130 mill per day invading Ukraine. That is around 50 B a year. B as in billion. Polish military is probably the fittest group in EU, they would wipe the floor with Russian "invasion" in a week.

You are taking my word as I'm speaking out of my ass, but we had an incident before anything ever happened in Poland, and we still don't feel like we should fear Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Zagreb_Tu-141_crash

This thing crashed 500 metric from my building in the densest part of Zagreb. This one could have killed thousands of people.

Lu Zwei wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 2:04 pmNo motherfucking Frenchmen is fearing what will Putin do to them because he will do jack shit. I agree that all the bordering countries have the built in fear of invasion from birth, but that will NEVER happen. He can kinda posture and try and pretend to, but that dude is losing 130 mill per day invading Ukraine. That is around 50 B a year. B as in billion. Polish military is probably the fittest group in EU, they would wipe the floor with Russian "invasion" in a week.

Lu, the invasion that “will NEVER happen” HAPPENED! Do I think future invasions are *likely*? No. But I also recall the countless so-called “leftists” to very publicly insisted Putin would never invade Ukraine when, again, he was amassing troops on the borders. Hell, we can probably scan the old forum’s politics thread and find examples. I’d even bet some are still posting some nonsense.

And Poland wouldn’t defeat them in a week. My support for that belief is every prediction of a swift military victory in the entire history of the world (with, like, three exceptions).

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:16 am Am I, personally, very worried about China or Russia fucking up my perch in NYC? Not really. But wow, I sure know a lot of—often liberal or even leftish—immigrant communities who are. Never mind my friends abroad, who live closer to the hostilities.

Ah yes, the Cubans in America. Now also, those leftists hate China too, because they live in the greatest democracy since Plato and Aristotle, unlike those imperialist Chinese people.

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:16 am Empires all gonna act like empires.

I will always side with China on this one. Solely based on the current history of not behaving like the other two.