mackro wrote:

nullpointerexception wrote:i REALLY know music. and this isnt music, its source code.

Then demand you get the fuck back to the axe section of the Guitar Center where you work, and don't let them schedule you in the synth & software section. Jesus Christ.

now THAT was a humerous response - well put - thank you!

nullpointerexception wrote:

Antero wrote:I love Björk!

She makes unusual, original music, incorporates a huge number of different sounds and genres in an interesting fashion, has an amazing voice, and somehow manages to be extremely successful at it!

And when she made an acappella album, she involved an actual choral sensibility (which I, as a choral singer, really appreciate - check "Submarine") as well as experimenting with unusual sounds.

On top of that, she's an adorable pixie who sings with the orcas!

Björk wrote:While you are away
My heart comes undone
Slowly unravels
In a ball of yarn
The devil collects it
With a grin
Our love
In a ball of yarn

He'll never return it

So when you come back
We'll have to make new love

nullpointerexception wrote:

thyklopth wrote:

nullpointerexception wrote:a monkey can make "music"/loops/beats/sequences/blips/bleeps/burps on a laptop

CRAP

interesting vocal phrasing, but a one trick pony....not enough to compensate for the unrelenting blip/bleep/blurp

CRAP

Uh oh, I think we may have a Philistine in our midst... http://www.bartleby.com/61/66/P0246600.html

yea, i get alot of that, i am used to it
however, i stand by what i said.
C-R-A-P

Can you make blurps as good as Björk's? I assume you have more musical talent than a monkey, neh? So, since it is apparently monkey-simple, I would like to see your blips.

"I don't like this music!" is one thing, but unrelenting ignorance as to the process of production is entirely another, more distasteful thing.

funny you should say that....

tell you what, you can prove it to yourself, just like i did

download an eval copy of Reason http://www.propellerheads.se/ play with it for an afternoon. get 32 tracks of beats/blips/blurps running, then selectively solo/mute groups as you see fit.

i did just this about a year ago........for the first hour or two, i was most pleased with myself. however, upon further analysis, i had an epiphany: i made this music by purely fucking around with patterns and waveforms expressed in a graphical domain. no musicianship was required. anybody can do it, really.....hence the monkey statement.

taking this a step further, this form of music has completely removed the soul and humanity of an art form.

think about it.

i realize i come off as smug and arrogant. i admit it. but everything i say is backed by real knowledge or experience. i admit that i am 100% ignorant on many topics, and will admit so freely (politics and world history are two such areas). but i do know music. i REALLY know music. and this isnt music, its source code.

nullpoint... please post an mp3 of your bleepy source code, so that we may hear your trickery.

the proof's in the pudding.

Not to derail this thread any further by responding to the troll, but

i REALLY know music

i REALLY know music

i REALLY know music

i REALLY know music

I just love how this looks. Thank you.

This reminds what a friend of mine got from an NYC viistor when he was DJing in town, after being pestered about song choices from said NYC visitor:

"Look! I'm from New York City. I KNOW what you should be spinning"

thyklopth wrote:

nullpointerexception wrote:

Antero wrote:I love Björk!

She makes unusual, original music, incorporates a huge number of different sounds and genres in an interesting fashion, has an amazing voice, and somehow manages to be extremely successful at it!

And when she made an acappella album, she involved an actual choral sensibility (which I, as a choral singer, really appreciate - check "Submarine") as well as experimenting with unusual sounds.

On top of that, she's an adorable pixie who sings with the orcas!

Björk wrote:While you are away
My heart comes undone
Slowly unravels
In a ball of yarn
The devil collects it
With a grin
Our love
In a ball of yarn

He'll never return it

So when you come back
We'll have to make new love

nullpointerexception wrote:

thyklopth wrote:

nullpointerexception wrote:a monkey can make "music"/loops/beats/sequences/blips/bleeps/burps on a laptop

CRAP

interesting vocal phrasing, but a one trick pony....not enough to compensate for the unrelenting blip/bleep/blurp

CRAP

Uh oh, I think we may have a Philistine in our midst... http://www.bartleby.com/61/66/P0246600.html

yea, i get alot of that, i am used to it
however, i stand by what i said.
C-R-A-P

Can you make blurps as good as Björk's? I assume you have more musical talent than a monkey, neh? So, since it is apparently monkey-simple, I would like to see your blips.

"I don't like this music!" is one thing, but unrelenting ignorance as to the process of production is entirely another, more distasteful thing.

funny you should say that....

tell you what, you can prove it to yourself, just like i did

download an eval copy of Reason http://www.propellerheads.se/ play with it for an afternoon. get 32 tracks of beats/blips/blurps running, then selectively solo/mute groups as you see fit.

i did just this about a year ago........for the first hour or two, i was most pleased with myself. however, upon further analysis, i had an epiphany: i made this music by purely fucking around with patterns and waveforms expressed in a graphical domain. no musicianship was required. anybody can do it, really.....hence the monkey statement.

taking this a step further, this form of music has completely removed the soul and humanity of an art form.

think about it.

i realize i come off as smug and arrogant. i admit it. but everything i say is backed by real knowledge or experience. i admit that i am 100% ignorant on many topics, and will admit so freely (politics and world history are two such areas). but i do know music. i REALLY know music. and this isnt music, its source code.

nullpoint... please post an mp3 of your bleepy source code, so that we may hear your trickery.

the proof's in the pudding.

agreed!

i know it sounds like a cop out, but the eval version of Reason that i had didnt allow saving of tracks.

however...

i did recently get a copy of Reason from bit torrent (gasp!)...if i get time this weekend i will install it, re-create what i did previously, and post it

for the sake of discussion, haven't any of you played around with Reason or any similar software? didnt your experience invalidate an entire genre of music? didnt your experience make you feel like when someone explained how that amazing card trick was done (oh, thats how its done? what a let down)?

i will shut up now.

nullpointerexception wrote:
for the sake of discussion, haven't any of you played around with Reason or any similar software? didnt your experience invalidate an entire genre of music? didnt your experience make you feel like when someone explained how that amazing card trick was done (oh, thats how its done? what a let down)?

Uh, no.

In the same way that someone who's a Half Japanese fan who starts making songs with his friends realize they can make a similar racket rarely go "Wow! The Fair brothers are really just a bunch of untalented hacks! What was I thinking? That's not music. That's just childplay! We REALLY know music"

nullpointerexception wrote:for the sake of discussion, haven't any of you played around with Reason or any similar software? didnt your experience invalidate an entire genre of music? didnt your experience make you feel like when someone explained how that amazing card trick was done (oh, thats how its done? what a let down)?

Actually, the opposite.

Playing with Reason and drum machines and blippy noises made me realize just how difficult it is to create something fucking excellent with those techniques - it's easy to make little blippy noises and be like, "Oh, this sounds cool," but to create a multi-layered composition of those bleeps, shifting it around melodies and song structure and lyrical/emotional content, that's hard... especially with the infinite tonal variations available. (90's techno, of course, is a breeze - the 1-4-5 of electronica)

Cutting up samples to make a hip-hop beat for my friend made me realize how incredible the greatest hip-hop DJs are, and how amazing it is that they could create the carefully layered soundscapes they made, and what extremes of crate-digging and what incredibly sensitive aesthetic senses those DJs had, fitting together completely alien sources into unified compositions... and then I think about the old DJs were doing this shit before digital tempo-shifting and actually looping beats and samples by SPINNING A FUCKING RECORD and my mind is blown.

Playing with hyperdistorted feedback loops and raw noise made me appreciate the intensity of concentration and actual delicacy involved in the works of Merzbow and so forth, and the impressive difficulty of arranging such chaos into improvisitory works in an aesthetically pleasing fashion (I still think Wolf Eyes suck, though).

So, in conclusion: if you try a new instrument or a new genre and think, "Wow, this is fucking easy, anyone could do this," there are two possibilities. Either

1) You are a virtuoso, or have overlapping skills that give you a step up

or

2) You actually suck at it and don't know any better due to the limits of your aesthetic sense.

Antero wrote:So, in conclusion: if you try a new instrument or a new genre and think, "Wow, this is fucking easy, anyone could do this," there are two possibilities. Either

1) You are a virtuoso, or have overlapping skills that give you a step up

or

2) You actually suck at it and don't know any better due to the limits of your aesthetic sense.

THANK you... I've been using computers for music for 16 years and feel like I should have something to add, but you express it so perfectly that I'd just be redundant. Just wanted to say... excellent post. Some people are very talented at making electronic music but unless you yourself have tried you have no idea how hard it can be. The people that make beats for Bjork are unbelievably skilled and talented.

I'm really glad I found this,

Björk presenting Modern Minimalists from 1997.

Skip to 02:25 when she interviews Arvo Pärt, I recall seeing this on TV ages ago and wishing I'd recorded it.

Her accent = N/C!

His stern Estonian countenance melting with her anecdote about the two voices in his music being like Pinocchio and his cricket conscience = Super N/C!

Thank you so much for that, Chris.

Not crap, she's great. Venus as a boy has been one of my favorite pop songs for years.