twelvepoint wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:55 am [People often pretend] that their impetus to do art is entirely internal and the approval of others doesn't have any bearing on their drive to make art

It should go without saying that almost everyone is susceptible—on some level—to outside influence, be it positive or negative, or a mixture of both.

The question becomes whether and to what extent an artist allows outside influence to dictate how they operate.

Chasing approval is a slippery slope, as the hand that giveth can taketh away. An artist can head in the wrong direction in a quest for wider appeal, because of what they believe is expected of them.

Maintaining personal standards and using them to pursue a creative vision for its own sake seems to be the best longterm strategy. Tastes might change, social standing can wax and wane or become beside the point, but if one attempts to create something and it turns out, that’s something that can’t be taken away from them. It can also outlast the petty confines of a given moment in one’s life.

DaveA wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:44 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:55 am [People often pretend] that their impetus to do art is entirely internal and the approval of others doesn't have any bearing on their drive to make art

It should go without saying that almost everyone is susceptible—on some level—to outside influence, be it positive or negative, or a mixture of both.

The question becomes whether and to what extent an artist allows outside influence to dictate how they operate.

Chasing approval is a slippery slope, as the hand that giveth can taketh away. An artist can head in the wrong direction in a quest for wider appeal, because of what they believe is expected of them.

Maintaining personal standards and using them to pursue a creative vision for its own sake seems to be the best longterm strategy. Tastes might change, social standing can wax and wane or become beside the point, but if one attempts to create something and it turns out, that’s something that can’t be taken away from them. It can also outlast the petty confines of a given moment in one’s life.

I think the same way there is "Gear Lust" there can be "recording songs lust." I'm basically the average hobbyist musician, although I do have a college degree in music (Who cares? I know...) but...

I regularly hear new music that I'm really inspired by, or that is really cool... and because I've developed very basic composition skills, I can attempt to emulate the sound/style, on recording, the same way I could read a book, watch TV, do crossword puzzles. So creating something new which incorporates elements of a pre-recorded sound/style. Recording it is one of the best ways to evaluate progress. Anyone who likes recording, for me, it's drums. If I record drums and listen back, I almost get high off it. It's that satisfying for me. Same with electric distortion guitar, or Chorus-laden guitar or something. Bass, meh... Vocals can be epic. I digress...

The difference I guess is that writing (and recording as a way to document the composition) original music asks much more of the creator than doing a crossword puzzle or watching TV, from a phenomenological perspective. It's fun, but at some point I'm wondering, "When is this gonna end? Am I addicted to this?" Whether it's the concept of working on a project, or recording an album, whatever...

Recording It definitely requires more energy than some other creative hobbies... It's all about balance I guess. But... another comparison. I stopped playing competitive sports around 25 years old because I just knew I couldn't do it anymore. Finishing up an LP (which I struggled to do for years) definitely made something click in my head where I was like, "Oh, I don't have to keep doing this anymore if I don't want to." Not to mention, it's an expensive habit!!! Also a frustrating one, at times.

One major positive of it, for me is the idea that 20 years from now, someone could stumble across my EP or album and I could make a sale. The satisfaction of recording it is temporary, but the potential for royalties does last forever. Recording is definitely one of the most unique hobbies in how complex it can be to consider psychologically. There's just so much to think about.

losthighway wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:04 pm I just coached my 6 year old daughter through piano practice because she has a lesson tonight. She asked for piano lessons.

She didn't want to practice or go to her lesson. I reminded her how she liked it last week. There was foot dragging, then her mom bribed her with hot chocolate.

We went out to my studio. She jammed for a bit. Played her little exercises from her books. Crushed it. Struggled a reasonable amount through something new then chose to run it again after I started taking out a different book.

She's like I was. Not like she's some genius but music just makes sense to her the way soccer does to most of the other kids on her team. When I finally stumbled onto something that was natural for me after 10 years of feeling like an alien my parents seized on it. They stuck me in private lessons and forced me to practice 5 times a week. I hated it. I loved rehearsing with groups and performing but independent practice was a battle.

The result is I can pick up a saxophone after years off and still play jazz music. I know harmonic theory and am fascinated with arrangement and composition in any genre. If a song needs a horn or string arrangement I can score it. Most importantly, music is my life raft when everything else is just work, responsibility and tedium.

I wouldn't have made it here without public and private resources and I wouldn't have developed so much without years of nuisance from my parents. I don't know how hard to push my kids. My dad pushed me in sports to a degree that hurt our relationship but I'm endlessly thankful to my parents for channeling me with musical discipline.

My oldest is only 6 but before she's 10 we'll need to figure out how much to push and how much to leave a kid to work as much (or more often as little) as they feel like after another tiring school week.

It seems like what you’re doing is working, and a reasonable amount of bribery, pushing, and hand holding will ultimately result in your daughter having another avenue to express herself, and really a language of its own. Keep it up, I say.

File under highdeas, but I want to open a noise music class at the School of Rock, for all the scrubs who just cant manage proper training, but want to make a racket. Make sure to invite gramma to Jimmy’s recital!

indiegrab_360 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:01 pmIt's fun, but at some point I'm wondering, "When is this gonna end? Am I addicted to this?" Whether it's the concept of working on a project, or recording an album, whatever...

It’s a bit like life itself, most people can’t be sure when it’ll end. There are times when living with that sprawling indefiniteness can be strange. Like waiting for Godot or a sign from the cosmos in the middle of the night, expecting some sort of confirmation or dramatic endpoint.

Only so much music does it for me, honestly, but I don’t think an interest in music or recording is that unhealthy unless someone has unrealistic expectations.

zorg wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:52 am File under highdeas, but I want to open a noise music class at the School of Rock, for all the scrubs who just cant manage proper training, but want to make a racket. Make sure to invite gramma to Jimmy’s recital!

Man, just plugging a mic into a pedal board with a delay pedal on it is a guaranteed 20 minutes of immersive entertainment in my house. Kids love making noise and even though pots and pans are cool if you give them some technology they really go for it.

Haven't recorded or written anything since approx. April 15, 2022... Coming around on one year. I know for a fact because I sold my interface shortly thereafter and haven't gotten a new one since. I also haven't really touched my guitars or drums much since then either.

I just won the below mixer on eBay though... so I may be coming back around slowly... Still no interface or recording rack gear or anything... yet. Trying to budget what it will cost to get back in the game and it's looking like around $1300 or so, or $500 without any dedicated DI/preamp setup. I'm really cheap so I have cold feet but we'll see.

It's totally possible to enjoy making music and not document it.

I would go so far as to say that if you don't want to document it or can't be bothered to do so, you might as well just forget about recording it. There are a lot of records and MP3s out there already.

Similarly, if you don't have any compulsion to keep making music, why bother at all. It's really OK not to do it anymore.

I think sometimes things we do become part of our assumed identity, and our sense of self depends on keeping up the activity. So we just keep nudging along with these behaviors in tow, out of habit or a sense of obligation, instead of being driven by a desire to do whatever it is.

Many of us who make music probably are driven by a kind of mania to do it, or we were at some point. Which is much preferable to doing it just because.

Conversely, if you are in fact really driven to make music and/or record it, I think you owe it to yourself (and maybe others if it's any good) to keep doing it more or less no matter what.

my $0.02, really worth about that much!

eephus wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:27 pm It's totally possible to enjoy making music and not document it.

I would go so far as to say that if you don't want to document it or can't be bothered to do so, you might as well just forget about recording it. There are a lot of records and MP3s out there already.

Similarly, if you don't have any compulsion to keep making music, why bother at all. It's really OK not to do it anymore.

I think sometimes things we do become part of our assumed identity, and our sense of self depends on keeping up the activity. So we just keep nudging along with these behaviors in tow, out of habit or a sense of obligation, instead of being driven by a desire to do whatever it is.

Many of us who make music probably are driven by a kind of mania to do it, or we were at some point. Which is much preferable to doing it just because.

Conversely, if you are in fact really driven to make music and/or record it, I think you owe it to yourself (and maybe others if it's any good) to keep doing it more or less no matter what.

my $0.02, really worth about that much!

I agree with you on all of this. I think at some point for me what works is going cold turkey.

Writing/Recording imo is an addiction, especially when you start hearing yourself improve, and many famous musicians talk about loving the studio and not wanting to leave the studio... but if you really think about it, they're just addicted to the high of listening to playback and creating "sound art" and that's at the best. Or they're "dedicated to their craft" and want to maximize profits off their fame via the sale of the recordings (stream or download or physical). But it's more complex than that.

Also interesting to note how recording is a very useful writing tool, so they go hand in hand. Without recording, writing is more difficult, because it at the very least requires you to remember every last note of what you're playing, or transcribe it. Then again, using devices that aren't hi-fi to record your own music is somewhat of a "self-sabotage" situation in a way. If your stuff is any good, a recorded version is only suffering from less than decently hi-fi recording gear. There's a line between "good enough" and "this interface/tape machine is making my music sound more dull." So recording does sort of require spending cash, or rather, equating a cash value to your own perceived self-worth as a musical artist (recording artist). Many artists can do a lot with a little, I'm sure, but how little before the end result is actually suffering from a lack of investment?

An interesting experiment would be to be a singer songwriter with no recordings who only performs live...
At some point if someone else volunteers to record you, we can all decide our thoughts on why.

In that sense, recording is a barometer of success. i.e. successful enough to have someone ask to record you. Probably similar to someone who's painting sells at a gallery. Someone else is investing in your artistic expression, because they need to pay for the recording cost in that scenario.

There's a ton of different facets to explore here, but most of the marketing makes you believe you need to be loaded with gear and honing those engineering skillz to get anywhere. For me what works is just selling all the gear off slowly until it's all gone and trying to view it as paying "studio fees" for the time I has been using it extensively.

So, if I spent $4,000 on gear and used it for 4 years... That's $1000 a year, roughly $100 a month. After re-selling the gear online for 50% money back, that's $50 a month... which is probably close to the average cost of cable TV or satellite TV I would imagine.

One of my favorite validations is golf. Paying for tee-times and golf fees is expensive. If you golf at $50 a round for 10+ times a season, that would be a pretty similar cost to consumer equipment recording hobby. So my major point is, yes... it's a hobby but it's also a lifestyle at some point.

The same way I stopped playing golf years ago, I seem to stop recording intermittently... but I actually enjoy music so much I don't really stop listening to music or practicing music in some way, even sans the ability to record.

I think at least 90% of humanity needs some kind of creative outlet. Some people more frequently and with greater intensity than others. It seems like in western culture in the 19th century if you were privileged enough for the leisures of scholarship there's a good chance you drew pictures with some frequency, possibly wrote poetry and definitely corresponded in letters that were more carefully crafted than emails or texts.

If most of us who record music were born most of a century ago we'd probably be trying to get our hands on a camera, a typewriter, or some oils and canvas (and an instrument obviously). The urge to work on a thing, look at it, maybe share it with someone and try to best it with another work seems to be as much a component of many people's sanity as exercise or sex.

I think the personal value of it is clear but it can be replaced by other things that offer some escape, get the mind in a flow state and/or express feelings or ideas.

I think I've finally settled into practicing/playing for its own sake and letting go of the nagging 'you haven't done X since Y' type voices. If I do come back to it at some point, I'll be a lot better and have new ideas, vs willing something together now to meet some imaginary quota.